Do animals have souls?

[ThorsSon]

Re: Do animals have souls?

So...I think it depends on what one concieves a "soul" as.

*If one concieves "soul" to be some approximation of an intact consciousness that continues in the absence of a body, which may or may not be reincarnated after death, or goes to some sort of afterlife, and/or is "placed" in a body at conception or before birth, etc. Then, no. I think it is unlikely that animals, including humans, have a soul.

*If one concieves "soul" to be some complex approximation of consciousness, then yes, I believe that some animals, including humans, have one (animals like elephants, dolphins, apes, and perhaps a few others). But not all animals (jellyfish are soul-less), and not all life forms (so are the shrubberies). Here, it is important to note that the science of consciousness (and yes, there is such a thing) is still in its early phases and is not always well defined or understood.

*If one concieves "soul" to be the spark of whatever makes us animated hunks of matter (what makes us alive)--what puts the ignis or spiritus vitae in the corpus, if you will (as a family we are self-teaching ourselves Latin, it just sounds cool and I think that, as a dead language, it lets you have a little more flexibility with meaning than English does)...then yeah, I think humans (as animals) and plants have "souls". Personally, I disagree that this is what a "soul" is (I fall in the consciousness=soul camp), but if that is how one defines it, then it technically qualifies.

*If one concieves "soul" to be a sort of je ne sai quoi for a quality relating to sacredness, then I think nearly everything *can* have a soul, wether it be human or not, or even alive or not (and again, I would disagree with this use, but...). I also think that "sacreness" is entirely up to the beholder.

I find myself only able to define "soul" with that first definition... leading me to state that none of us have one (but then, I'm a ginger, and everyone knows gingers have no soul).

I dislike calling consciousness the "soul," just like I dislike calling the Higgs Boson the "god particle."

Using religious terminology in science misleads the public. It makes people think that scientists are saying something that they aren't.

[thalassa]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I find myself only able to define "soul" with that first definition... leading me to state that none of us have one (but then, I'm a ginger, and everyone knows gingers have no soul).

If a lawyer has no soul, and a ginger has no soul, does one negate the other? Do ginger lawyers have a soul? Or do they have negative one souls? Is it additive or multiplicative?

Using religious terminology in science misleads the public. It makes people think that scientists are saying something that they aren't.

I come at that from a different perspective--Science and religion (ETA: and I'm pretty my definition of "religion" is quite large in scope as well) answer and ask and answer different questions about life, as well as the same questions in different ways. I'm a scientist that is religious. I don't think people are somehow inhernetly incapable of distinguishing the multiplicity of meanings or nuances of terminology. I think the problem is that that contemporary Western culture fails when it comes to putting either one into language, because we lower the expectation of people having the ability to communicate metaphorically AND literally simultaneously. Consciousness, in particular, IS a very fuzzy science, mostly because there is a limit to science.

[midgnostic]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I think a soul is what makes you different from anyone else so to me animals have some soul but less than humans, although animals would ordinarily distinguish among their own kind better than they would us and indeed than we would them. I suppose an animal's immortality is more tied up with its offspring than ours

[ChainLightning]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I have to say, Thal is SO eloquent!

Option 'b' is what I was trying to say. But with the addition of apathy in regards to any lack of proximity, geographically or emotionally.

Out of sight; out of mind - it has its uses.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Do animals have souls?

*If one concieves "soul" to be the spark of whatever makes us animated hunks of matter (what makes us alive)--what puts the ignis or spiritus vitae in the corpus, if you will (as a family we are self-teaching ourselves Latin, it just sounds cool and I think that, as a dead language, it lets you have a little more flexibility with meaning than English does)...then yeah, I think humans (as animals) and plants have "souls". Personally, I disagree that this is what a "soul" is (I fall in the consciousness=soul camp), but if that is how one defines it, then it technically qualifies.

*If one concieves "soul" to be a sort of je ne sai quoi for a quality relating to sacredness, then I think nearly everything *can* have a soul, wether it be human or not, or even alive or not (and again, I would disagree with this use, but...). I also think that "sacreness" is entirely up to the beholder.

I fall pretty much in this camp... primarily the former with a twist of the latter. Hence my views and stance as an animist.

[Juniper]

Seeing the pet thread I made seems to be going strong, I thought I would ask about this. What does your religion say about animals and souls, if any? If not, what are your beliefs on the subject and more importantly WHY do you believe that? And is this belief based on fact/science/gut feeling/really really wanting it to be true?

My answer is, yes. I believe that animals have souls. If humans have it, why can't animals. Humans ARE animals, are we not? Heck, I even believe plants and rocks have something of a soul type essence. The "Why do I believe that?" will have to wait until I'm at a computer.

[thalassa]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I fall pretty much in this camp... primarily the former with a twist of the latter. Hence my views and stance as an animist.

Now see, I consider the latter two to be "spirit"....and "spirit" + consiousness = "soul"

[Rae'ya]

Re: Do animals have souls?

Now see, I consider the latter two to be "spirit"....and "spirit" + consiousness = "soul"

I don't think that I differentiate 'soul' and 'spirit' all that much. I think that difference species (and geni etc) have souls of different complexities. But in general, I believe that anything that has a spirit has a soul.

Part of this may be because of my belief that consciousness is a subjective term. I know that we are beginning to be able to measure consciousness in humans, and gain a semi-scientific idea of what makes up our human consciousness. But I think that consciousness is species specific... just because plants don't have the same type of consciousness that humans do doesn't mean that they don't have one at all. You know as well as I do (better, even) that the plant kingdom has some incredibly complex communication devices, as well as an ability to adapt to environmental changes, to react to stimuli, and to avoid noxious stimuli (which could be argued to support the idea that plants feel an abstract kind of pain). There are levels to the operation, communication and interaction of the plant kingdom that we are only just beginning to touch on.

At the end of the day one of the foremost things in my mind when we talk about souls is that fact that in the not-too-distant past, people genuinely believed that certain human races didn't have souls. And more recent than that, people genuinely believed that animal's didn't feel pain. and we're still debating today whether animals have souls. I think our understanding is limited and when it comes to souls, fairly human-centric.

We can't even all agree on what a human soul is, let alone what may or may not be the soul of non-human species.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Do animals have souls?

Animal souls don't generally work as well in a pizza as human souls but they are an option for horrors with odder tastes. :cthulhu:

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I believe animals have far more soul than humans, for the most part. Why? They are simply at one with the symbiotic ecology of the Earth we humans work so hard to destroy.

[Ignorantfool]

Re: Do animals have souls?

In my path everything is considered pure consciousnesses. Shiva as the unmanifest Consciousness manifest the world (everything in it). To do this Shiva (Pure Consciousness) needs Shakti (The Supreme Goddess). The Goddess is the power of Shiva (The God). Shakti (the great Goddess) manifests the world (stars, planets, air, fire, humans, animals, plants) onto herself (like a screen). In other words Shiva through Shakti creates the world onto itself which means everything is Consciousness and not separate.

This means that animals, rocks, humans, galaxies are Conscious and have intelligence. In this tradition you can reincarnate as a grass or animals etc.

In my view I think all animals have a 'soul'. They have experiences and emotions. Even bees experience moods. Everything is pulsating with the bliss and consciousness of Shakti. Everything is alive and One. In my opinion we would be foolish to suggest that we are the only animals that have a 'soul.

[moonixir]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I definitely believe that animals have souls. I was taught by my family when I was younger it wasn't so because they don't know God, but what are we to say that that do and don't know? I respect them, and they are a very integral part of my life. I've always been surrounded by animals, and I share a deep connection with them. I'm choosing to make my career be focused around animals, and I'm in process of getting things in line for me to go to school to be a small business leader geared towards animal care. I've always felt animals with me. I can look at them and almost know what they want, what they need, and how they are. If they're scared or happy, sad or angry. But having souls? Most definitely. And they are very bright ones at that!

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Do animals have souls?

I am certain animals have souls.

Sometimes though, I'm not so sure about humans...

[ThorsSon]

Re: Do animals have souls?

Oh... my... [imaginary friend]!!!! NO!!!!

You don't have a soul.
Your friend doesn't have a soul.
Your imaginary friend doesn't have a soul.

Your pet, certainly doesn't have a soul.

(I took the liberty of replacing "God" with "imaginary friend")

[LeviImmortal]

Re: Do animals have souls?

Of course! Their souls vibrate at a lower frequency, but they are nonetheless souls.