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    Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

    I'm currently working my way through the Eddas (Bellows translation) and I saw an interesting footnote a while back concerning Freyja choosing half of those killed in battle:

    [Notation on verse 14 of the Grimnismol] "... Half of the dead: Mogk as made it clear that Freyja represents a confusion between two distinct divinities: the wife of Othin (Frigg) and the northern goddess of love. This passage appears to have in mind her attributes of Othin's wife. Snorri has this same confusion, but there is no reason why the Freyja who was Freyr's sister should share the slain with Othin."

    Have any of you heard this before or is there more support for this assertion? It really does make sense, at least as someone approaching the source material for the first time. Yet, I've never heard this before. I've even heard heathens chastise people for calling Freyja a "love goddess" because "she's also a bad-ass war goddess who even chooses the slain warriors before Odin!"

    In retrospect, though, it does seem to make more sense that it would be Frigg who does this. Considering all sorts of other inconsistencies that show up in these late-written transcriptions, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a transcription error. Has anyone else come across this interpretation before?

    #2
    Re: Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

    Originally posted by Rowan Wulfram View Post
    Have any of you heard this before or is there more support for this assertion?
    For the assertion that Frigg is actually the one who takes half the slain? I've never heard or read that before. As far as I've read, there's nothing in any of Frigg's lore that would suggest she does this, and it's certainly not in any PCPG (UPG that has been shared by multiple people and is therefore generally accepted by some groups) that I've heard. It seems that's an assumption based on Frigg's role as Othinn's wife rather than anything else. While Freyja being involved with slain warriors is attested to in several places in both the Edda, several Sagas and in the name of her property, Folkvangr.

    It's an interesting thought of Bellows', but I'm more inclined to think that it has stemmed from the old academic trait of equating deities with each other. Frigg and Freyja get equated with each other and mixed up not infrequently in scholarly works. Non-religious academics often like to break deities down into relatively simplistic Archetype categories, and when something doesn't line up perfectly, they sometimes start assuming that someone translated wrongly, or got mixed up, or added extra things into the poems and stories.

    Originally posted by Rowan Wulfram View Post
    I've even heard heathens chastise people for calling Freyja a "love goddess" because "she's also a bad-ass war goddess who even chooses the slain warriors before Odin!"
    I have some personal disagreements with Freyja being labeled a 'love goddess'. Simply because her version of 'love' actually seems to be more about sexuality, beauty, self confidence and self worth. As far as I'm aware, there is very little in her actual lore that links her with emotional love of the heart and/or marriage and/or relationships. But there are actually Asynjur in Frigg's retinue who take on those roles. Tales of Freyja talk more of her beauty and sexuality rather than 'love', so I'm inclined to think that her supposed role as a 'love goddess' is a later sanitisation.

    Originally posted by Rowan Wulfram View Post
    In retrospect, though, it does seem to make more sense that it would be Frigg who does this. Considering all sorts of other inconsistencies that show up in these late-written transcriptions, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a transcription error. Has anyone else come across this interpretation before?
    Do you have a reason for thinking that Frigg makes more sense for this?

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      #3
      Re: Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

      I have heard of it before...I'll have to do some digging to find it though.

      (Not being into that set of deities, I tend not to do much other than remember stuff I've read here and htere)
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #4
        Re: Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

        Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
        Do you have a reason for thinking that Frigg makes more sense for this?
        To be honest, I really only felt that because of Frigg's relationship with Odin. Like I said, this is my first time reading through some of the primary sources, which is why I thought I'd ask around and see if this was a common idea. Just looking at how Frigg and Odin sometimes stand together and sometimes are at odds with each other in the lore, the idea of Frigg taking half the dead seem to fall in with that dynamic in my mind.

        But clearly this is not a very aknowledged idea beyond Bellows, which is fine, that's what I was wanting to find out. In all the mythology I had read previously and discussions among heathens I had never heard this before.

        And of course you are definitely correct about the "love goddess" label, since none of the gods can be narrowed down to a single label anyway! I just brought it up to show that most people see the task of taking half the slain as a part of Freyja and her "job".

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          #5
          which half Freya gets is rather compelling, which is why I brought him into this in the first place, though I very much doubt it has any roots whatsoever in lore.
          Basically it's the fairer half she takes, that is all women who dies valiantly in battle. No, think about this for a moment. While women were not traditionally fighters, and on Iceland they were even prohibited from carrying weapons, they did defends themselves and their homesteads if attacked. There are several accounts of this in the Icelandic "Landnamma" Book, the "biography" about the colonisation of Iceland. Well some of these women probably died in the battle, and valiantly too. So by the logic of the Old Norse people shouldn't they end up in Valhal as well?
          If they did, this would leave Odin with the problem that faces all armies that has both female and male warriors, do you bunk them together or apart? Olsen possible mated this thought with the reference of Freya getting half the slain and decided that she takes the women who dies in battle.
          I leave you with this rather entertaining idea to do with what you please.
          Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

          An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

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            #6
            Re: Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

            Originally posted by MoonRaven View Post
            which half Freya gets is rather compelling, which is why I brought him into this in the first place, though I very much doubt it has any roots whatsoever in lore.
            Basically it's the fairer half she takes, that is all women who dies valiantly in battle. No, think about this for a moment. While women were not traditionally fighters, and on Iceland they were even prohibited from carrying weapons, they did defends themselves and their homesteads if attacked. There are several accounts of this in the Icelandic "Landnamma" Book, the "biography" about the colonisation of Iceland. Well some of these women probably died in the battle, and valiantly too. So by the logic of the Old Norse people shouldn't they end up in Valhal as well?
            If they did, this would leave Odin with the problem that faces all armies that has both female and male warriors, do you bunk them together or apart? Olsen possible mated this thought with the reference of Freya getting half the slain and decided that she takes the women who dies in battle.
            I leave you with this rather entertaining idea to do with what you please.
            Darn, I really wish I could read Danish now, that sounds like a really interesting series and as far as I can tell there were no English translations done. That's too bad. Also an interesting notion that Freyja took the women who died on the battlefield, that was certainly something that had not occurred to me.

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              #7
              Re: Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

              Originally posted by MoonRaven View Post
              Returning to Olsen's book, his idea about which half Freya gets is rather compelling, which is why I brought him into this in the first place, though I very much doubt it has any roots whatsoever in lore.
              Basically it's the fairer half she takes, that is all women who dies valiantly in battle. No, think about this for a moment. While women were not traditionally fighters, and on Iceland they were even prohibited from carrying weapons, they did defends themselves and their homesteads if attacked. There are several accounts of this in the Icelandic "Landnamma" Book, the "biography" about the colonisation of Iceland. Well some of these women probably died in the battle, and valiantly too. So by the logic of the Old Norse people shouldn't they end up in Valhal as well?
              If they did, this would leave Odin with the problem that faces all armies that has both female and male warriors, do you bunk them together or apart? Olsen possible mated this thought with the reference of Freya getting half the slain and decided that she takes the women who dies in battle.
              I leave you with this rather entertaining idea to do with what you please.
              I've read a multiple UPGs from Vanatru that states that Freyja takes all the woman (bar those sworn to Othinn) and a number of the men.

              In general I tend to agree with this though... it makes sense for a number of reasons. a) not all those killed in battle were warriors. b) not all those killed in battle were men. c) Othinn is collecting warriors for Ragnarok, and his Valkyrja don't take everyone to Valholl.... so what happens to the rest? I don't know that bunking men and women together would really matter to Othinn (and after all... Valholl is reported to have some ridiculously large number of rooms, along with the assumption that the Valkyrja also bunk there), but I think that there are some fairly logical assumptions we can make from the lore that would support the UPG and PCPG of Freyja's worshipers.

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                #8
                Re: Freyja/Frigg taking half the slain

                Freya taking half the slain and choosing first has all of one mention in the Prose (Younger) Edda; this is generally attributed to Christian influence (the thought being that no 'real' man would want to spend eternity serving a goddess, even Freya, and so would more willingly accept conversion). The concept of Ragnarok and all it's details might also be due to Christian influence (ie: the Apocalypse), or to outright editing by those such as Snorri who put the Eddas onto paper. The confusion about Freya being Frigg and vice versa existed in the minds of later tellers and translators of the tales, as ample evidence of cultic worship of each individual exists. I can't think of anything in the Lore that portrays Freya as anything remotely approaching Xena the Warrior Princess (a damsel in distress sometimes, sometimes wandering heart-broken in search of her run-away husband, sometimes bestowing sexual favors on Dwarves in return for the Brisingamen necklace), although she is referred to as a Disir, Vanadis and maybe as a Valkyrie (but these titles may simply be honorifics). In much the same vein, Frigg isn't portrayed in any sort of a role as a combatant. Entrance to Valhalla (or Folkvang, for that matter) would have been considered to be for members if the elite ruling class, not for, say, a stable hand who might have been slain in combat. I believe it's highly unlikely that any one of that time period would have considered a woman entering Valhalla or Folkvang through death in battle. If there are instances in any of the Sagas, I'd love to know about them.
                I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

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                For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

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