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    #61
    Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

    Okay guys, back on the original topic.


    Mostly art.

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      #62
      Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

      Sorrrreeeeeee!!!!

      It all boils down to communication, like most things in relationships. People don't like to lay the groundwork first - they meet and flirt, and move on in, and LATER it comes out that, oh, you always wanted 5 kids (dogs, cats, country home/city ap't. - you get the drift).
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      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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        #63
        Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

        Just because we love someone doesn't make them a nice person. There are certain things that I personally will not tolerate in a relationship. One of these is cruelty to animals. Another is ditto to children. Another is cheating. Now these are my rules, and if I enter into a relationship with someone, and have made these rules clear, and he agrees, I don't then expect to see another side of him after a few weeks/months. And if I do, then I feel quite okay with leaving or kicking him out.

        This is not a 'pagan' thing to do, nor is it 'Christian' 'Hindu' whatever. It's common sense. Don't pretend to be something you're not just in order to get into a relationship with someone because sooner or later the faults will open up.

        Nor does it apply just to husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, or whatever other sort of relationship we're in. It can apply to friendships and even to in-laws. Life is hard enough as it is, dealing with the outside world, without having aggravation inside my own four walls.
        www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


        Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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          #64
          Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

          I love cats. Like looooooove.

          But if I found out my significant other let me know if it came down to it, that they'd pick their pet over me? I'd probably clean out their bank account and shit in their bed right before I left. Because imagine you being told that. You'd really never ever ever want to get along with that pet.
          Satan is my spirit animal

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            #65
            Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

            I don't think anyone is saying that they value their pets over their significant others. I think most people are saying that in a relationship where the pet came first, it's not reasonable to ask someone to make that choice. Some people don't like animals and that's fine, but if that's the case, make that clear from the get-go, because most people want to be with someone who shares their values (for me personally, "liking animals" kind of goes beyond being able to get along with the cat and is a personality trait that I find really important because it says a lot about a person). Otherwise, try to figure out how to get along with the pet.

            Personally, I'd feel pretty bad if H would take the cat over me, but I also don't think it would be fair of me to put him into the position of giving up something that he really, really loved in the first place.

            I guess what we can take out of this is what Hawkfeathers said...communication is really, really important. If you don't like animals or have a problem with a specific animal, make that clear from the get go so that the other person can decide how they feel about that before the relationship gets serious. Don't lie or pretend you're fine with something you're not. On the flip side, if your pets are important to you, make that clear right away and don't try to change someone who clearly doesn't want to have a relationship with your pets. If it's that important to you, find someone else -before- the relationship gets serious. Be clear about who you are, what you want, and what you value and find someone who shares that instead of trying to force it with someone who doesn't.

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              #66
              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
              I love cats. Like looooooove.

              But if I found out my significant other let me know if it came down to it, that they'd pick their pet over me? I'd probably clean out their bank account and shit in their bed right before I left. Because imagine you being told that. You'd really never ever ever want to get along with that pet.
              This, and the chilli, are why you are the most evil satanist.....
              ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

              RIP

              I have never been across the way
              Seen the desert and the birds
              You cut your hair short
              Like a shush to an insult
              The world had been yelling
              Since the day you were born
              Revolting with anger
              While it smiled like it was cute
              That everything was shit.

              - J. Wylder

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                #67
                Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                I don't think anyone is saying that they value their pets over their significant others. I think most people are saying that in a relationship where the pet came first, it's not reasonable to ask someone to make that choice. Some people don't like animals and that's fine, but if that's the case, make that clear from the get-go, because most people want to be with someone who shares their values (for me personally, "liking animals" kind of goes beyond being able to get along with the cat and is a personality trait that I find really important because it says a lot about a person). Otherwise, try to figure out how to get along with the pet.

                Personally, I'd feel pretty bad if H would take the cat over me, but I also don't think it would be fair of me to put him into the position of giving up something that he really, really loved in the first place.

                I guess what we can take out of this is what Hawkfeathers said...communication is really, really important. If you don't like animals or have a problem with a specific animal, make that clear from the get go so that the other person can decide how they feel about that before the relationship gets serious. Don't lie or pretend you're fine with something you're not. On the flip side, if your pets are important to you, make that clear right away and don't try to change someone who clearly doesn't want to have a relationship with your pets. If it's that important to you, find someone else -before- the relationship gets serious. Be clear about who you are, what you want, and what you value and find someone who shares that instead of trying to force it with someone who doesn't.
                I agree with what you said here. But if you read back you will see some of you went ape shit cat lady. So I stand by what I said.
                Satan is my spirit animal

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                  #68
                  Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                  Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                  I agree with what you said here. But if you read back you will see some of you went ape shit cat lady. So I stand by what I said.
                  Nope, its the ultimatum I have a problem with.

                  "_________ or I leave" ---I'll pick _________, thanks. It could be a cat, it could be a house, it could be a job, or a hobby. For all I care, it could be my Troll doll Splinky with the blue hair and jeweled belly. I've seen women (its always women (ETA--in this particular example)) tell their boyfriend/husband to quit reenacting...dude, that's their hobby. How much of a self-centerd ***** are you to begrudge your man some closet space and the occasional weekend camping trip? ...tbh, most of those relationships fail in a couple years anyhow, and not from that... IMO, ultimatums are a sign of weakness of love, trust, and sometimes, character.

                  Because ___________ generally ends up being something so trivial that it should be discussed rationally as adults and dealt with compromise or coping skills on both persons parts. And when its not, its often something so important to that person that its rather insensitive and selfish to ask them to give up whatever it is--and if you are so insensitive to your signifigant other's meaningful relationship with __________, or their responsibility to __________, or whatever, that you can't discuss it rationally as an adult and deal with it with compromise and coping skills...then you shouldn't be in a relationship with that person anyhow. And...in the few cases when its neither of those, its generally something that is so detrimental to the relationship anyhow (abuse and addiction comes to mind) that you should have enough common sense to get out while you can because an ultimatum isn't going to affect either of those.

                  IMO: Either you love the person enough that you understand what ___________ means to them and suck up the annoyance of whatever __________ is to you in order to work it out together, or you don't (the exception being something akin to abuse or addiction, in which case, you should love yourself to just get out). Basically, personal annoyance doesn't get to trump your partner's meaningful something.
                  Last edited by thalassa; 30 Oct 2014, 07:42.
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    #69
                    Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                    What Thal said.... That's the point I massively failed to make....
                    http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                    But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                    ~Jim Butcher

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                      #70
                      Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                      I agree with what Thal said, but I actually meant it in the literal sense. If it came down to an ultimatum, I would choose my cat. Regardless of what the ultimatum was - kill my family or kill my cat, love x or love my cat, etc etc.

                      Because he's a cat, it's instinctively going to make me sound like a crazy cat lady, but I don't care. I would not be on this planet, alive, breathing at this very moment, if it wasn't for a little grey kitten that came into my life six years ago. I would be dead. I would have killed myself.

                      I owe my cat my life. The very least I can do in repayment is let him kill mice, feed him well, and love him above all else.


                      Mostly art.

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                        #71
                        Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                        Nope, its the ultimatum I have a problem with.

                        "_________ or I leave" ---I'll pick _________, thanks. It could be a cat, it could be a house, it could be a job, or a hobby. For all I care, it could be my Troll doll Splinky with the blue hair and jeweled belly. I've seen women (its always women (ETA--in this particular example)) tell their boyfriend/husband to quit reenacting...dude, that's their hobby. How much of a self-centerd ***** are you to begrudge your man some closet space and the occasional weekend camping trip? ...tbh, most of those relationships fail in a couple years anyhow, and not from that... IMO, ultimatums are a sign of weakness of love, trust, and sometimes, character.

                        Because ___________ generally ends up being something so trivial that it should be discussed rationally as adults and dealt with compromise or coping skills on both persons parts. And when its not, its often something so important to that person that its rather insensitive and selfish to ask them to give up whatever it is--and if you are so insensitive to your signifigant other's meaningful relationship with __________, or their responsibility to __________, or whatever, that you can't discuss it rationally as an adult and deal with it with compromise and coping skills...then you shouldn't be in a relationship with that person anyhow. And...in the few cases when its neither of those, its generally something that is so detrimental to the relationship anyhow (abuse and addiction comes to mind) that you should have enough common sense to get out while you can because an ultimatum isn't going to affect either of those.

                        IMO: Either you love the person enough that you understand what ___________ means to them and suck up the annoyance of whatever __________ is to you in order to work it out together, or you don't (the exception being something akin to abuse or addiction, in which case, you should love yourself to just get out). Basically, personal annoyance doesn't get to trump your partner's meaningful something.
                        What about the ultimatum Choose (whatever is important to me) or gtfo? The other person who doesn't own the animal has a right to be in a relationship where they are loved more than that animal. Now if you went into knowing full well your gf is crazy cat lady and will die with them in her coffin...then shame on you. But I have a sneaking suspicion that's not how it went. Because crazy cat ladies let you know right up front. Which is why they are single crazy cat lady. Ultimatum sucks from both sides. Oddly that other side isn't mentioned.

                        My opinion stands and does not move.
                        Satan is my spirit animal

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                          #72
                          Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                          That is why, I think, people have spoken about up-front honesty and communication. Without these things, all bets are off, and people have asked for the conflict they have created.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #73
                            Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                            Personally, it's not just about the cat. Loving animals is something I really value. I can't really tell you why. I have friends who don't really like animals because they never grew up with pets and they make them a bit nervous, and I don't think they're bad people for it or anything. But liking animals always seems to point out a kind of sensitivity that I find very endearing. The way that H would sit with Petzi, the way Albert runs to the door every time he comes home, the way he takes pictures of sheep, horses, geese, or any other animal we see when we're riding bikes or hiking...all of that warms my heart a little. Contrasting that with guys I've dated who didn't want Petzi to walk over their jeans, and there's just no contest. I guess those things sort of show off his nurturing side (which he definitely has) and a touch of sensitivity, which are both qualities I really value.

                            But that's what I mean about picking someone who shares your values and communicating your values.

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                              #74
                              Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                              What about the ultimatum Choose (whatever is important to me) or gtfo? The other person who doesn't own the animal has a right to be in a relationship where they are loved more than that animal.

                              But, in this case, she didn't tell him to choose. If she had said "deal with the cat or get out", then she would have made the ultimatum, and my point would still stand--when the decision is "________ or me", ___________ wins. You can't blame the person that didn't make the ultimatum for making some sort of ultimatum. And, in this case, its not about love, its about respect for your partner as a person with their own values and responsibilities. Love isn't what makes or breaks a relationship--its respect and trust...you can have a perfectly functional (though somewhat lacking) relationship without love, but you can't have one without respect or trust (key word being functional---plenty of dysfunctional relationships have love, though we could debate whether or not love is really love in these cases). Regardless of all that...ultimatums don't work.

                              It would be different if the person said something like "Hey, I can't handle this for X, X, and X reasons. We need to figure out what will help fix this problem together. But, if we can't, I think we need to think about finding someone better equipped to deal with cats with issues to take the cat" (all of this being conjecture, of course, that a) none of this occured and b) that the cat has some legitimate medical/emotional/behavioral problems).

                              Don't get me wrong, I also think there is something to be said as well for admitting to oneself that "hey, this cat obviously isn't happy here--he's picked on by the other two cats, he's got all these behaviors that can't be mitigated by us" and then finding a rescue group or shelter and turning the cat over to them. But the best place mentally for being able to do that isn't in the face of work stress, relationship stress, and an ultimatum on the matter.

                              Taking this whole situation at face value (because we really can't do anything else, and I've known plenty of people to do this sort of thing, so I find it easy to take at face value), when you adopt an animal you have a responsibility to that animal, just as much as you have a responsibility to yourself, and to your relationship. A pet isn't something that you throw away because its inconvienent. And a person that doesn't understand that (in my book) and doesn't respect that responsibility (at the very least to be part of finding them a better home than the one that is currently being provided), whether they like it or find it convienent and amenable or not, isn't someone I would want to have a relationship with anyhow. If they can't handle an inconvienent pet, what happens when a kid is involved? How about a kid with special needs? Even if you don't plan to have kids, plenty of life's other curve balls are inconvienent...when life gets hard, can you really trust this person to deal with it? I don't think I would. IMO, how you deal with animals says more about you as a person than not.


                              Although, at this point, I think we've totally stomped all of the OP's actual problems with her cats and her boyfriend with a ****ton of conjecture and judgement...so I don't blame her if she wants to back off the topic with a 100 foot pole.
                              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                                #75
                                Re: Boyfriend constantly fighting with me about cats

                                She hasn't been around in a while, though. I think this topic became not just about her and her problem and about pets and relationships in general, or?

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