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    #16
    Re: Ways of meditation?

    My issue with using distraction techniques for meditation has always been the risk of it becoming a crutch. If we always meditate with music or incense or our relaxing bath first, we are limiting our own abilities. These are good techniques to get started with, but I think that we should aim to move beyond them and learn to reach a meditative state with no tools. An adept at meditation should be able to meditate anywhere and under any circumstances... on the bus, at lunch break at work, while out walking, at the park, sitting, standing or laying down, in a quiet room or a loud one, in seclusion or surrounded by people. I think that's where any 'evolution' of a meditative practice should be aiming for. Not how long can you sit quietly before your legs go numb, but under what circumstances can you do the work that you're trying to do.
    This is what the Buddhists have been saying as well. (And what I keep forgetting, it would be so much easier to just sit bored one hour and that would be done, instead of actually meditating, whatever that means.)

    Perhaps I should jot down on some thoughts even though I'm still a bit confused what meditation means to me as a Pagan.
    The Buddhist meditations I talked about in my last message were mostly the basic "follow your breath" stuff ('shamatha', in Buddhist terms, or the somewhat clumsy English translation: 'calm-abiding'. I have to admit I still don't know whether there is a difference between this type of meditation and mindfulness meditation, most likely not or at least that is not so huge.
    Then, *sigh*, I have done all various things Youtube has to offer. I've spent hours looking for new shiny meditations. Did find some favourites every now on then but lately I've become quite wary of what YT has to offer, when it comes to things like religions and meditation.

    Now I mostly do kind of short mindfulness meditations focusing on strong emotions. I have those quite often and I live alone so rather than throwing things around and doing something I'd regret, I try to do something more constructive. However, meditation as a Pagan practice does interest me. I've been quite drawn to visualisations but that might just be a way of daydreaming.

    Many of us talk about 'meditating'... but what do we actually mean? What are YOU actually doing while you 'meditate'? Relaxing? Introspecting? Thinking about your day? Objectively allowing your thoughts to flow past? Doing a guided visualisation? Doing a non-guided visualisation? Working on your energetic balance and hygiene? Worrying about how you haven't done the dishes yet? Planning the day trip you're doing tomorrow? Listening to some pretty music as you naturally fall asleep?

    Is what you are personally doing actually enriching your practice, or are you just going through some motions that you assume you have to do because you read that pagans should meditate?
    Good point. Personally, I don't know how to answer those questions. As I don't know what really is the function of Pagan meditation, I suppose it varies depending on the person. A question worth thinking about...

    I guess I'll leave it here before the site is taken down..
    baah.

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      #17
      Re: Ways of meditation?

      Personally I have a regular pre-sleep routine that is technically 'meditation' but which I don't really count as meditating. I do a relaxation (usually release-tension-on-the-breathe but occasionally a full tense-and-release if I'm particularly tense) and a mindfulness (setting-my-thoughts-aside and recently a leaves-on-a-stream one) to help shut my brain down at night. I don't really count it as meditation because it's not a spiritual thing, but a daily maintenance routine to help stop my brain churning around when I'm trying to sleep.

      Then I have my 'proper' meditation, which is mostly energy hygiene and Innerworlds work... energy balances, shield maintenance, removing astral scum, and working with my internal 'chakra totems' (I hate that term but I don't have another term for them). Most of my deity work is done via trance rather than meditation. Plus I use a meditative state during ritual and magickal workings, but I don't count that as 'meditating'.

      Otherwise I don't do 'classic' meditation. I don't do clear-the-mind type meditations, I don't meditate every day just because I 'should', I don't sit quietly and introspect... I do quite enough 'introspecting' throughout my day (my brain is pretty much in a constant state of thinking, checking, triple checking, rehashing, planning and introspecting... which is why it needs help shutting down at night). So that classic meditation that most people think of is not enriching or useful to me at all.

      I can meditate sitting in a chair anywhere, including on the bus and at work. But if I sit on the floor I have to sit on a cushion (to raise my tailbone and tilt my pelvis) or my legs go to sleep and distract me. If I lay down to meditation during the day I will occasionally drop off to sleep... perhaps because I've actually trained myself that laying down + relaxation exercise + setting thoughts aside = time to go to sleep now brain. And I'm not particularly good at walking meditations... I get distracted by the need to watch out for traffic before crossing the road, or to keep an eye out for snakes. You could say I've got a ways to go with being able to meditate anywhere, anytime... but then I don't really bother to work on those other things because I don't feel that it's necessary to my practice. I can do most of my daily checks and quick maintenance without a full meditative state, and that's good enough for me.

      Good point. Personally, I don't know how to answer those questions. As I don't know what really is the function of Pagan meditation, I suppose it varies depending on the person. A question worth thinking about...
      The questions were not about pagan meditation, but about YOUR personal meditation practices. The fact that you are constantly on the look out for new meditations suggests to me that your personal practice lacks direction and purpose. Which means that these questions are probably very important for you to answer. Without a clear direction and purpose, you're just going through the motions.

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        #18
        Re: Ways of meditation?

        I cannot mediate to save my life. If I try to be still, I'll just either have an on going list of things in my head or fall asleep. I have bi polar and I always wondered if meditating might be harder because of how my mind is wired. I actually use my multi tasking brain to aid me in my daily life. So I don't know how to shut it off. I think the closest I get to clearing my mind of my things is when I listen to audiobooks. I love riding my bike or walking and listening to audiobooks. I completely lose track of where I am or time or reality. I can walk and 'see' the sidewalk ahead of me, but I'm not really there.

        Any tips on how to get a bi polar mind to meditate?
        Satan is my spirit animal

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          #19
          Re: Ways of meditation?

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          I cannot mediate to save my life. If I try to be still, I'll just either have an on going list of things in my head or fall asleep. I have bi polar and I always wondered if meditating might be harder because of how my mind is wired. I actually use my multi tasking brain to aid me in my daily life. So I don't know how to shut it off. I think the closest I get to clearing my mind of my things is when I listen to audiobooks. I love riding my bike or walking and listening to audiobooks. I completely lose track of where I am or time or reality. I can walk and 'see' the sidewalk ahead of me, but I'm not really there.

          Any tips on how to get a bi polar mind to meditate?
          My brain isn't bi-polar, just over active... but it sounds like we have the same issue. I 'tune out' very easily with daydream... where I'm operating on autopilot but my brain is off on some imaginary adventure. Sometimes I'll stare into space and it looks like I'm not doing anything, but my brain is churning away. Then Torey asks me what I'm thinking about and I can't tell him because it's actually more like five things jumping back and forth and I can't remember what they all were. I find it really difficult to shut my brain off without a trained routine.

          So my advice is mindfulness. Which is annoying because it seems so fluffy and silly, but it really does work. It takes practice though. Lots of practice. I visualise my thoughts as a lights scattered on a black background, and gather them up and put them off to the side where they can do their thing while I do mine. I can't stop them completely, so I set them aside into their own little swirly thought-mess where they aren't bothering me. I'm currently trying an actual 'real' mindfulness meditation that I was given, 'Leaves on a Stream', where you visualise a stream with lots of leaves on it, and you put the thoughts on the leaves and let them drift off downstream.

          The key is that you aren't stopping your brain from thinking, you're just redirecting it. You're stepping back from the thinking process and bringing your awareness into the present moment. So you let your brain think... but as a background process that you aren't paying any attention to. You can notice the thoughts, but let them pass by or put them aside where they can do their thing away from you. At first you spend a lot of time not actually getting anywhere, but constantly plucking thoughts and setting them aside... and as quick as you set one aside two more take it's place and you feel like you haven't even made a dent. But you just keep doing it every day and then one day it starts to work and the thoughts drift by and you can focus on whatever else it is that you're trying to do.

          The next key is the 'whatever else you're trying to do' thing. I think active brains need a purpose or they're going to keep trying to think and plan, or they're going to decide to just give up and go to sleep.

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            #20
            Re: Ways of meditation?

            Ok. So when I'm being 'mindful' what exactly am I thinking? I mean you don't know what I'm thinking. But what would it look like? Am I just spending some time moving my thoughts off the board? Then I feel as if I'm just thinking organizationally. I mean am I just supposed to be empty? I'm literally getting anxious just thinking about this to be honest. The only time I feel like I'm empty of thoughts is right before I stop fighting the 3 sleeping pills I take at night. In fact I actually cannot be alone in a quiet space. I go to sleep with my mp3 earbuds in listening to my audibook. I ride to work with it. I fiddle on the computer with artisan type videos playing in the background. I cannot be silent in my head. Because I know the thoughts that are there. And they don't really....they don't help.

            Yeah. Suddenly I feel I'm in a pysch session.:=L:
            Satan is my spirit animal

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              #21
              Re: Ways of meditation?

              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
              Ok. So when I'm being 'mindful' what exactly am I thinking? I mean you don't know what I'm thinking. But what would it look like? Am I just spending some time moving my thoughts off the board? Then I feel as if I'm just thinking organizationally. I mean am I just supposed to be empty?
              I found the following on a person's blog who is also bipolar and practices mindfulness meditations, so maybe their description will be helpful:

              If that was at all helpful, there was more to the article/blog post, so you should check it out.
              And if it wasn't helpful, try googling meditation and bipolar, there's a lot of advertisements that pop up, but there's also some helpful looking things mixed in.

              I hope this helps even a little!

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                #22
                Re: Ways of meditation?

                Yes, thank you very much. That clears things up a bit for me. I might try this!
                Satan is my spirit animal

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                  #23
                  Re: Ways of meditation?

                  It's about objectively observing the thoughts instead of experiencing them. You are absolutely just spending time moving your thoughts off the board. That's exactly what it should 'look like'. They are there, but you've organised them off into the sidelines so that they aren't messing up your mojo. You see them and let them pass by without engaging them... like people passing in the street.

                  It sounds really silly and pointless, but what you're doing is training your brain to be able to step back from the thoughts and not get caught up in them. You'll never stop them... I absolutely believe that some brains aren't wired to be empty. But you can disengage from them. And when you're disengaged from them, they aren't effecting you. Psychologiss teach it as a way to break harmful and unhelpful thought cycles, and to help with insomnia caused by a brain that wont shut down. But it's basic meditative theory... setting mundane thoughts aside so you can focus on other stuff.

                  I mostly do this until I fall asleep... so I just keep imagining and visualising then I fall asleep. Otherwise I visualise the lights and pull them all into a little swirling galaxy image that sits at the corner of my internal 'field of view' while I do my actual visualisations. My mind is rarely still... it's just redirected. New thoughts will pop up at first and I have to push them over into the swirly thing. When I've reached that point of 'meditative state' it feels like being zoned out, just like you described before.

                  Recorded guided meditations might help you, if you already zone out with audio books. Then when you get the hang of it, try it without the recording. It'll take time though.

                  There are lots of other mindfulness exercises, which are basically various meditations designed to disengage you from your thoughts and be present in the now. Which is just a fancy way of saying that you're not thinking about yesterday or earlier today or tomorrow. It's really a whole other subject though.

                  - - - Updated - - -

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                    #24
                    Re: Ways of meditation?

                    For me, meditation is great for my bipolar. I have been taking medication for a few years now. But I have only been practicing meditation for half a year, but I can tell it definitely helps along side of the medicine. Now, I do get bad days, but they are not so bad as long as I can clear my mind and just breath. I usually go to a "happy place" in my mind where I can just lose myself in the place, instead of my thoughts. Through meditation, I have also been able to learn more about myself and come to love myself even more. I never loved myself or my appearance. I always thought myself a failure and not good at anything. But I have come to learn my strong points and weak points through meditation, and because of that, I can now work on my weak points whilst battling my bipolar.

                    I do have other issues, such as social issues and I cannot go anywhere by myself. I am dreadfully scared to. But I hope that through meditation, I can over come this and be able to practice baby steps, such as just leave my apartment. Then the apartment building. But I believe that meditation will help me with this along with my therapist and practicing.
                    Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

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                      #25
                      Re: Ways of meditation?

                      So, in the line of self-guided meditation, I do this pretty regularly.
                      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                        #26
                        Re: Ways of meditation?

                        I tend to do different meditations. For relaxation I just focus on my breath or sounds. When med and my kid does it together we relax and listen to stories I have made up om CD plater with relaxing sounds or music added to it.

                        But I also do it complete alone, when doing it for spiritual guidance or reason. Sometimes silent, with music, sounds or guidede meditation it all depends om The reason and mood for me.

                        Thanks for sharing so many lovely tips and techniques.

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                          #27
                          Re: Ways of meditation?

                          My personal favourite meditation is a guided one from the order of bards, ovates and druids website under druidry and meditation, it's called meditation with the 4 elements if you want to check it out

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