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    #1

    How does one become branded a terrorist?

    The Secret Government Rulebook for Labeling You a Terrorist
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
    The watchlist system now requires neither “concrete facts” nor “irrefutable evidence” to designate you a terrorist.


    Essentially? Minority report. Basically, they take a guess as to whether or not you will be guilty of a crime in the future. Based on?

    Of course, the entire thing is written like tax code...it's a goddamned travesty.

    Just to drive the point a little closer to home, let's say that a member of some Skinhead group shows up here - as has happened in the past. The US might not label that guy as a suspected terrorist...but...

    ...meaning that if the guy shows up here for a week and gets banned or leaves on his own, anyone that interacted with him may be put on a watch list. Get stopped by the cops for a busted taillight?

    Nah...we don't have anything to worry about though. Our various Governments would never harass someone that was pretty clearly not a terrorist, right?

    The article is VERY long, but informative. I encourage you to read it and do your own research - I am available for computer related questions if you have them.

    Lastly - as I'm still reading through it myself...

    Medusa: I may be paranoid. Maybe.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

    Yikes, interesting read. Although, I'm not too worried because

    1. I live in Canada
    2. The government screws up plenty of times
    3. With so many people suspected/associated with terrorist organizations, that's like the entire country. You talked with the dude on the bus? He was a terrorist/associated with terrorism.

    So I'm not too worried about being singled out as a possible terrorist. Still nerve-pinching, though, how paranoid some countries are.


    Comment

      #3
      Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

      I've assumed that I was blacklisted when I was a child merely because of my internet browsing and the books I've purchased being related to paganism.... I don't worry myself over it...sometimes small town life has its perks... As in if I don't know the cop talking to me, my husband or whoever is with me does...I'm not goingout of my way to do crazy stuff, if a bunch of Nimrods I don't know want to draw conclusions, however inaccurate, about me... Well its not the first time.
      The day has not yet arrived where this should scare me... Although it is coming.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

        Where does it end?

        I'm giving up my U.S. citizenship as soon as my Aussie citizenship comes through. They'll probably blacklist me for that, if they haven't already...

        Comment

          #5
          Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

          Hell in a hand basket... it's worse than insane.

          And, pat down a 2 year old?!?


          /headdesk




          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

          "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

          "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

          "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


          Comment

            #6
            Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

            ... well, I suppose I'm blacklisted then, and have been for a while! I'm kind of with Torey in that I assumed I was blacklisted as soon as I started looking into paganism.
            Kemetic Blog - http://www.inspiringrainbow.wordpress.com

            Bring your grains of Salt.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

              Not me. I assume I was blacklisted either for a series of arrests or for research materials.

              I can't help that I like fire and explosions, so I spent some serious time at the library... taking notes. LOL




              "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

              "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

              "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

              "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


              Comment

                #8
                Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                Some years ago, when we moved house, we had our mail redirected by the Royal Mail. I suspected that it was first being opened by the time it reached us... just odd things, couldn't put my finger on it. So.... I got a sheet of paper, typed a load of gobbledegook on it so it looked like a code (just a couple of lines) and posted it to me, at my old address.

                It took three months to reach me.
                www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                  Originally posted by WinterTraditions View Post
                  1. I live in Canada
                  Our goverment is no innocent bystander. During the G8 summit a few years ago our government directly allowed the F.B.I. to spy on all world leaders entering Canada, and even helped them set it up. We've been caught spying on innocent nations and their industrial operations, we are no better than the U.S.A. make no mistake. I'm sure whatever applies to Americans is also going on here, we just don't hear about it as much.
                  White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
                  sigpic
                  In Days of yore,
                  From Britain's shore
                  Wolfe the dauntless hero came
                  And planted firm Britannia's flag
                  On Canada's fair domain.
                  Here may it wave,
                  Our boast, our pride
                  And joined in love together,
                  The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
                  The Maple Leaf Forever.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                    Originally posted by Torey View Post
                    Where does it end?

                    I'm giving up my U.S. citizenship as soon as my Aussie citizenship comes through. They'll probably blacklist me for that, if they haven't already...
                    You may have already done your research of course, but the last time I checked Aussie laws, they were actually more Draconian than the US', and it was much more difficult to effect positive change (if you can believe that). YMMV of course - I've certainly no love of the deviousness of this shithole, but unfortunately (for me at least) it's still the best game in town.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Originally posted by InspiringRaine View Post
                    ... well, I suppose I'm blacklisted then, and have been for a while! I'm kind of with Torey in that I assumed I was blacklisted as soon as I started looking into paganism.
                    Well, you probably won't be blacklisted just for being Pagan...honestly, the people that are the most vocal about caring are also the most ignorant about discovering, so that should be pretty safe.

                    What gets me is the "Guilt by association" thing, which IIRC, our Constitution was more or less supposed to eliminate entirely. Hell, a spouse can't even be forced to testify against their s/o - although these laws may change the face of things a bit.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                    Some years ago, when we moved house, we had our mail redirected by the Royal Mail. I suspected that it was first being opened by the time it reached us... just odd things, couldn't put my finger on it. So.... I got a sheet of paper, typed a load of gobbledegook on it so it looked like a code (just a couple of lines) and posted it to me, at my old address.

                    It took three months to reach me.
                    Yup - this doesn't surprise me in the least, and is something that our forebears (in the States) thought long and hard about before creating our (nearly defunct) postal system. What you just described is completely and utterly against the law with US Post, but I guess when you add "on the Internet" they can just do whatever they want.

                    Whoops, wrong rant. Anyway, doesn't surprise me.

                    And for the record - I know for a fact I'm being watched having worked for the NSA. I'm not concerned about me. I know what my rights are, and I have full confidence that, should the Government decide to pursue me for anything, that they will be completely ignored. I'm not prepared, but at least I won't be surprised. No, my real concern here is this: How many people - really really INNOCENT people - are going to get screwed by this? Don't think it can happen? What if you need to fly to a parent's funeral, and you don't realize there's a problem until you show up for your flight? You've already spent the money - doesn't do you any good to look for a rental car or anything like that unless you happen to have a lot of liquid cash available. So now you're detained for extended periods of time, your shit is gone through (and they aren't careful. At all.), and you're sent home. While you miss the funeral. Wonderful. What if it were a job offer?

                    Yeah...I think it's a whole mess of shit, and even if I personally don't "fear" the laws (as I'm well aware of what they're capable of), it's still wrong, and our government should fucking know better. Scratch that - our government DOES fucking know better, they just don't care.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                      Originally posted by Doc_Holliday View Post
                      Our goverment is no innocent bystander. During the G8 summit a few years ago our government directly allowed the F.B.I. to spy on all world leaders entering Canada, and even helped them set it up. We've been caught spying on innocent nations and their industrial operations, we are no better than the U.S.A. make no mistake. I'm sure whatever applies to Americans is also going on here, we just don't hear about it as much.
                      Page not found - Open Canada
                      http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/essays/canada-and-the-five-eyes-intelligence-community/


                      seems relevant to this point. One blatant innaccuracy withstanding (I've got property on Coruscant for anyone who believes that Five Eyes partners don't spy on each other), Canada and the US are longstanding partners with each other and some other nations when it comes to intelligence.
                      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                        Originally posted by Doc_Holliday View Post
                        Our goverment is no innocent bystander. During the G8 summit a few years ago our government directly allowed the F.B.I. to spy on all world leaders entering Canada, and even helped them set it up. We've been caught spying on innocent nations and their industrial operations, we are no better than the U.S.A. make no mistake. I'm sure whatever applies to Americans is also going on here, we just don't hear about it as much.
                        This, in so many different ways.

                        The real issue AFAIC with the Canadian Government is that you're picking up our bad habits as well as those from your Queen (yeah, I know it's not that simple, but run with it). I've noticed a lot of trends cross the border (hell, you're one of the reasons we have Obamacare - thanks! . Of course, we're legalizing weed, and I doubt it's a coincidence that it's starting just south of BC )...spying is just one of many.

                        The apathy is what's going to kill us (and honestly, it's always been the primary issue with draconian Governments). What's the phrase? I think it was Terry Pratchett that said, "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.” ...wait...that's not right...

                        Crap...not Pratchett - someone almost as smart (and I actually found two versions of essentially the same sentiment, so here you go )

                        Albert Einstein - “The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”

                        Edmund Burke - “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                          This reminds me of a case we had year before last I think it was, here in Denmark.
                          A guy wanted to visit the US during his summer holiday so he applies for a tourist visa, three months passes (usually it takes about 2-3 weeks to get if they're slow) after which he gets a refusal. Being very puzzled by this since he's never been convicted for anything, never done drugs, has no chronic illnesses or anything that would bar him from entry, he tries to get a proper answer as to why, but the embassy just gives him a song and a dance.
                          Longish story short. In the end he goes to the press with the story, and after a lot of trying to run around with the press (and the press having none of it since it's silly season and they're starved for stuff to print) they (the press) finally get an unofficial explanation (no one wants to go on record and say this, but it was what the journos could get). The reason he's barred from entry into the US - apparently permanently - is because the number for his mobile phone once belonged to a person on the US's terrorist watchlist. That was all.

                          So I'm not really surprised by that list Rok, not in the least.

                          (Guy never got that visa.)
                          Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

                          An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

                          "Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                            Ah, yeah, I came across that yesterday when I was reading up on this stuff and doing my own research.

                            My wife was almost denied her Nursing License because, according to the Feds, when she was 1.5 years old she went to LA, stole a car, flew to England, and ran up over $50k in debt. It's a point of contention in our relationship that I was never brave enough to have the kind of fun that she had when she was younger, but this was really the last straw...

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: How does one become branded a terrorist?

                              Originally posted by Roknrol View Post
                              My wife was almost denied her Nursing License because, according to the Feds, when she was 1.5 years old she went to LA, stole a car, flew to England, and ran up over $50k in debt. It's a point of contention in our relationship that I was never brave enough to have the kind of fun that she had when she was younger, but this was really the last straw...
                              That shits me. My mother ran up all kinds of debt in my name and my credit history was screwed by the time I was 10.

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