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    daughter left at playground while mom works..

    Mother arrested for 'leaving daughter, 9, alone on playground' while she worked 600 yards away at McDonald's is out of a job as fundraiser to support her tops $30,000
    ~South Carolina mom Debra Harrell was arrested June 30 after her daughter was found playing alone as her mother worked a shift

    ~Harrell's attorney says the 46-year-old is 'currently unemployed' but McDonald's claims she was not fired

    ~A total stranger to Harrell has started a YouCaring fundraiser to support the mom that topped $30,000 in just a few days

    ~Harrell's daughter had a cell phone with her as she played around dozens of other children


    ~Harrell sent her daughter to the playground after the laptop she used to entertain herself in the McDonald's was stolen from their home, say reports

    McSpecialSauce

    Questions to discuss:

    ~Compassion? Yay/no way
    ~How old is old enough to be out all day at the local playground?
    ~Is the system broken that a single mom can't work and get help with daycare?
    ~Overall impressions?
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Originally posted by Medusa View Post

    McSpecialSauce

    Questions to discuss:

    ~Compassion? Yay/no way
    ~How old is old enough to be out all day at the local playground?
    ~Is the system broken that a single mom can't work and get help with daycare?
    ~Overall impressions?
    We always used to play alone at 9, without parental supervision. Hell, we were all over town. Also, when I was a kid, the age you could go to the swimming pool unsupervised was 8. I feel for this poor woman. I dont have kids of my own this age, but I know that the kids I teach are all over town and playing on the skate park etc at that age.

    The only thing that may sway my judgement would be the relative safety of the place they lived. I only say that because the place I grew up and where I now live are very different to the places the average person lives.
    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

    RIP

    I have never been across the way
    Seen the desert and the birds
    You cut your hair short
    Like a shush to an insult
    The world had been yelling
    Since the day you were born
    Revolting with anger
    While it smiled like it was cute
    That everything was shit.

    - J. Wylder

    Comment


      #3
      Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

      A 9 year old is old enough to play at a park without parental supervision, particularly when she's within walking distance to where her mom is and has a cell phone. I stayed home alone at 9, played outside and at the "park" (the schoolyard, a couple blocks away) for all hours of the day, I really don't see what the big deal is.

      But, I'm also not a parent that has bought into the crime hype (crime is lower now than it was when I was a kid) and I'm definitely not a parent that babies her kids--I'm raising future adults, not forever children. Chickadee has been "staying home alone" for short periods of time since last year, once we practiced what to do in a fire, how to call me, how to call 911, and not to open the door or answer the door for any reason. She's good for about an hour or two at this point--long enough that I can grocery shop if she doesn't want to go. I can also trust her to go into a store to buy something on her own, find a restroom in a store or restaurant on her own, and hie herself to her tutoring or gymnastics on her own, if I just drop her off at the outside curb.

      We've started leaving Sharkbait with her for short periods of time (about 15 minutes), and they are about ready to graduate to 20-30 minutes...


      That family has been screwed--that poor child, put into the state's custody, for something that should be normal (there is a book series from the 70's on "your child at such and such an age"...a six year old should be able to go to the corner store up to 6 blocks a way and pick up a few items and bring back change, but should only need to know how to read and write about 30 words---if you ask me, we are doing this backwards...life skills first). We've infantalized kids for too long, sheltered them too much to think that a kid this age can't be left alone (thank goodness there's no law for this here). At 10 (only a year older than this girl) I was babysitting! Its a McDonald's shift--she's probably not there 8 hours (they usually have few full time employees), and (while I don't know the particulars) I'm pretty sure that little girl could walk down the street (though I get that 900 yards sounds far to lost of lazy, fat Americans that can barely walk down their driveway) if she needed her mom (not to mention that she could apparently call her on the phone).
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
      sigpic

      Comment


        #4
        Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

        Thal, I agree with most of what you say. But I wouldn't even leave a kid I hated at the park. I used to go to the park when I was 15/16 alone. And I got into serious trouble doing so. I can't imagine leaving any kid alone at the park. Maybe in a nice rich neighborhood. But not anywhere near where I live. It's all homeless and gangs.
        Satan is my spirit animal

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          Thal, I agree with most of what you say. But I wouldn't even leave a kid I hated at the park. I used to go to the park when I was 15/16 alone. And I got into serious trouble doing so. I can't imagine leaving any kid alone at the park. Maybe in a nice rich neighborhood. But not anywhere near where I live. It's all homeless and gangs.
          I think that this is the main point. It depends on environment.
          ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

          RIP

          I have never been across the way
          Seen the desert and the birds
          You cut your hair short
          Like a shush to an insult
          The world had been yelling
          Since the day you were born
          Revolting with anger
          While it smiled like it was cute
          That everything was shit.

          - J. Wylder

          Comment


            #6
            Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

            Originally posted by Heka View Post
            I think that this is the main point. It depends on environment.
            I'm going to go out on a limb about that enviroment. If you are a single mom working at McDonald's, it's likely you are not rich and do not live in the best of areas. Just a hunch.
            Satan is my spirit animal

            Comment


              #7
              Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
              Thal, I agree with most of what you say. But I wouldn't even leave a kid I hated at the park. I used to go to the park when I was 15/16 alone. And I got into serious trouble doing so. I can't imagine leaving any kid alone at the park. Maybe in a nice rich neighborhood. But not anywhere near where I live. It's all homeless and gangs.

              I live in the city (just under a million in Norfolk/Virginia Beach), in a lower rent apartment in a middle class neighborhood across the street from a park, and down the street from a McD's...where I grew up a lower-middle income neighborhood that was right outside the downtown of 40,000 person town, next to a highway. I in no way live in a nice rich neighborhood (we used to...and funny thing is, we had more problems there)...its a decent suburban-ish neighborhood in a city.

              I have no idea what sort of town North Augusta, South Carolina is (wiki just says it has 21,000 people, which seems small to me)...but unless its all homeless and gangs, I can't see that its automatically a big deal. Unless my kid was a known trouble maker, known to have peer pressure issues, or for some reason rather immature...

              Don't get me wrong, if she's working anything more than a 4 or maybe a 6 hour shift, it does seem excessive, but I don't think we know enough--was she actually sent there all day? Was she dropped off there to walk back later when she was sick of playing or to get picked up when she called and mom could take a break? Did she have a snack or drink with her? Was she capable of using the phone she was sent with? Was the park relatively safe in an okay neighborhood.

              Or was she sent there with no food and no water in 110 heat index to swelter for 8+ hours next to a homeless drug addict with a pile of broken needles at his feet?

              If its the latter, shitty mother. If its the former...I think its reasonable, and we are punishing a single mother that obviously couldn't afford child care.
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                Have you taken a look at Megan's Law and seen all the child predators in your neck of the woods? I say this because I do it every time I move. And I'm shocked just how many (and I'm not talking those who were 18 and had sex with their gf who was 17 for a month etc)I'm talking sexual violent crimes, are taking place in my little neighborhood. I would never in this day and age leave a kid at a park. I'm not making a judgement on a mom who does so, because I'm sure it was a Sophie's Choice kind of heart wrenching decision. But where I'm from? A lot of moms are shitty and do in fact leave their kids roaming about.

                You and I must live in different worlds. Then again I do live in Los Angeles county. So..there's that. If you know anything about my lovely county.
                Satan is my spirit animal

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                  The town I grew up in was poor as hell, but there were only about eight hundred people... so everyone knew everybody. Plus it was a reservation, which meant it was very insular and everyone was drilled since day one to "take care of our own."

                  Honestly, you were safer on the streets than you were in your own home most of the time.
                  Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                    Have you taken a look at Megan's Law and seen all the child predators in your neck of the woods? I say this because I do it every time I move. And I'm shocked just how many (and I'm not talking those who were 18 and had sex with their gf who was 17 for a month etc)I'm talking sexual violent crimes, are taking place in my little neighborhood. I would never in this day and age leave a kid at a park. I'm not making a judgement on a mom who does so, because I'm sure it was a Sophie's Choice kind of heart wrenching decision. But where I'm from? A lot of moms are shitty and do in fact leave their kids roaming about.
                    I think we must--though there are areas of Norfolk and Va Beach and some other locales where I wouldn't let them play without my also being armed (and we all know my feelings about waving guns around)...plus (I've worked in North St. Louis and East St. Louis, which are not very nice neighborhoods) I think a lot of it, assuming the place is okay over all is the kid. Although I don't disagree there are shitty moms...we called CPS last summer when one of Phee's gaggle of friends was beat and told Phee more than we were prepared to deal with at the time.

                    The first thing we've always done when we move somewhere is look at the sex offender registry...we try to pick places where its less of an issue.

                    The second thing we do is tell our kids where they can and can't go, and now we add in a why. And they listen and follow directions pretty well--V 2.0 has some impulse issues to work on, but V 1.0* is surprisingly understanding and reasonable--and cautious.

                    The third thing we do (even if it means people think we are weird) is get to know our neighbors, their kids, and their kids friends--this last one is not unusual around here (knowing your neighbors, even in an urban area, maybe is a Southern thing in the US). Kids around here play outside together--there are only a few homes they can go in.

                    The fourth thing we've done (consistently, as an on going conversation about life--everything from safety to ethics to decision making to dinosaurs and space travel) is talk to our kids--Sophia now knows (Collin doesn't quite understand yet) about sexual predators (she also knows about child abuse, after incident) because we've had many conversations about things like sex, bodily autonomy, people that do bad things, about appropriate behavior around strangers, and about what she should do various situations---everything from bullying to a fire in the home to a stranger at the store...and some of those things we've practiced. We try to be age appropriate, but honest...especially after the incident last summer, it was our "come to Jesus" moment on needing to start talking about things like abuse (and Hubby's mom is a retired detective).

                    We are pretty laid back parents...but as a family we are pretty introspective, and we discuss the crap out of stuff, even things other families probably wouldn't consider their kids mature enough for.

                    And to some extent...yeah...lets face it, I'm a middle class white mom that was raised in a middle class white-ish close-knit neighborhood, there is probably a certain amount of race and class privilege there, that I expect that my family should be able to live relatively unmolested by crime and abuse.
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                      Originally posted by thalassa View Post

                      And to some extent...yeah...lets face it, I'm a middle class white mom that was raised in a middle class white-ish close-knit neighborhood, there is probably a certain amount of race and class privilege there, that I expect that my family should be able to live relatively unmolested by crime and abuse.
                      Lol. I was actually thinking this but didn't want to say it. I know it would sound racist coming from me. But I ain't hatin. More power to you and your kids for having that (all be it in this day and age) slight advantage. I keep forgetting the USA is not all like LA. I live in a predominantly lower class Mexican area. We have a grand daughter here( not we but the lady of the house has) who is 5. She knows the neighbors across the street. They come over daily to play on the slip and slide. So all in all it's nice, right?

                      We also have a woman (I have no idea where she lives but I guess in one of the houses in the area) who nightly roams around our dark quiet cross street. She roams the intersection. Roams. Like a zombie. I walked home last night and saw her trying to pick nothing off the ground. Straggling. Freaked the living daylights out of me. I was like this is how I die. How do I kill zombies again?

                      So yeah. It's nice..comparatively. Then again when I was younger all the people who tried to touch me were pretty much those friends your parents 'trusted' and not strangers as much.

                      I'm the Debbie downer of this thread.

                      I think back to the lady now..There should be more options to help out mothers like this. I mean, the people (we know who they are) want no more abortions. So help a mother out once she has the kid you make it hard for her to make any other choice other than birth. Gah.
                      Satan is my spirit animal

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                        McSpecialSauce

                        Questions to discuss:

                        ~Compassion? Yay/no way
                        ~How old is old enough to be out all day at the local playground?
                        ~Is the system broken that a single mom can't work and get help with daycare?
                        ~Overall impressions?
                        What the hell was she SUPPOSED to do? She wasn't going to be affording day care on McDonald's pay.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                          Lol. I was actually thinking this but didn't want to say it. I know it would sound racist coming from me. But I ain't hatin. More power to you and your kids for having that (all be it in this day and age) slight advantage. I keep forgetting the USA is not all like LA. I live in a predominantly lower class Mexican area. We have a grand daughter here( not we but the lady of the house has) who is 5. She knows the neighbors across the street. They come over daily to play on the slip and slide. So all in all it's nice, right?
                          Hey, sometimes I forget to filter the privilege, but I am well aware of it...I also happen to think that it shouldn't need to BE a privilege...everyone should be able to live their life without fear of crime (or, for that matter, of a miscarriage of justice).

                          The LA thing though, I kind of get this. My step-brother (ex-step-brother? My dad and his wife just divorced) brought his girlfriend home with him...she was from LA, and she was Mexican and grew up in a lower class neighborhood... We took her apple picking and on a hayride at a local orchard. She thought we were rich--my dad and all his siblings have fairly normal (for the midwest) houses on at least 1/2 acre--in the midwest, that sort of house (at that time) would cost about 80k...she'd never seen yards that size for regular families. It was a bit of a culture shock in some ways.

                          I think back to the lady now..There should be more options to help out mothers like this. I mean, the people (we know who they are) want no more abortions. So help a mother out once she has the kid you make it hard for her to make any other choice other than birth. Gah.

                          This. Yes. I might be a middle class white mom, but I'm certainly not a values snob. When hubby and I got out of the military, we were one pay check away from couch surfing, crashing with family, and living in our car (actually, I spend some time--about 3-4 months all together, in two separate stints--doing that while he was a contractor and we lost our corporate housing)...but we "made too much money" for food stamps (by $40 a month, because of my GI Bill benefits)--luckily we qualified for VA health care and the kids for the state heath care. Had I gotten pregnant...or he lost his job or gotten hurt...had I been a single mom...had one of the kids gotten sick... Had I not had my grandmother there to help with the kids... Fuck. I know how hard it was for us, with two (relatively) healthy adults with income, with free child care that could be trusted, with family and friends support...I don't even want to imagine what it would be like to add shit on top of that. I'd rather my tax money go to send her daughter to day camp than to pad Monsanto's pockets or get in another war.


                          And damn, I have no grammar left...I'm really going to bed this time.
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                            MacDonalds should either pay a decent wage or offer some sort of creche facilities themselves. Yes, children can get into difficulties (and not just in the local park), but the woman was WORKING not out partying.
                            I think a bit more compassion towards her by her employers, the authorities etc., would help. Why the hell do some people worry more about the fetus than they do about the child as it's trying to grow up?
                            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

                              Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                              MacDonalds should either pay a decent wage or offer some sort of creche facilities themselves. Yes, children can get into difficulties (and not just in the local park), but the woman was WORKING not out partying.
                              I think a bit more compassion towards her by her employers, the authorities etc., would help. Why the hell do some people worry more about the fetus than they do about the child as it's trying to grow up?
                              It's the United States. Our first and only reaction to anything is to punish the crap out of anyone involved in anything.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Mind you, the same people who'd scream for this woman's head on a plate would be the same people calling her a "welfare queen" if she'd stayed home with the kid.

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