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Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

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    Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

    (I'm new, so please be gentle if this has been discussed before)
    In short form: How do you feel about new-age/'nu goth' tweens and teens wearing Ouija boards on t-shirts and using planchettes for necklaces? (Personally, I think it's incredibly tacky.)

    But to be much more broad and serious about it: On a scale of 'rolling my eyes' to 'literally tearing my hair out', how angry/upset does it make you to see non-Pagans wearing symbols such as pentacles/pentagrams, triple moons, Vegvisir, Celtic runes, and various other religious/spiritual/magic symbols and/or objects? Especially when they claim to either not believe the sincerity of such things ("Pagans are just attention wh*res trying too hard to be different!" or "It's just fairytale junk!") or outright say that Paganism is wicked. Sort of apples and oranges, I suppose, as Ouija Boards are more of a novelty compared to long-standing religious symbols, yanno.

    From personal experience, it upsets me greatly to see teenagers wearing Satanic symbols to be 'edgy'. (Nevermind those confusing a pentacle for a pentagram or assuming either is 'evil' and therefore "SO EDGY XD".) Outside of my own faith, it's still... disturbing to watch the appropriation of other spiritualities for the sake of fashion. I've mentioned this once to a (non-Pagan, non-spiritual, non-religious) friend and he told me, "People outside of a faith have no obligation to respect that faith; symbols mean different things to different people. What might be sacred to you, is simply decoration for them. And that's acceptable. You can't care about things like that, dude. It's dumb to get offended." I only really read the rebuttal as "I don't care because it isn't relevant to me, so stop whining."

    #2
    Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

    I don't roll my eyes.

    I honestly don't care.

    People take pictures and use them - so?

    Should I be bothered that the pattern known as "paisley" is based on ancient Hindi fertility symbols?

    Really, if this is the thing people have to get irked about, I wish I had their life...
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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      #3
      Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

      Symbols often have a variety of meanings. When I was researching my book, Sacred Shadows, I was amazed at some of the interpretations given to ancient pictograms. Left to my own devices, I would have suggested something totally different.

      I am very much opposed to people somehow 'owning' these ancient symbols. And who knows? Maybe something of the magic will rub off on the wearers
      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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        #4
        Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

        I don't get it. What's the problem?

        It seems a little prejudicial for you to say nonpagans shouldn't wear pagan symbols. Sure, I get a bit annoyed when I see the triple moon and get told it represents God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost but that doesn't mean they should t be allowed to wear it. Symbols are symbols because they represent something and history shows us those representations change and mutate over time. Even if they want to wear it because it looks cool who cares? I don't consider it an attack on my culture. I agree with your friend wholeheartedly. I have tons of clothes with crosses on them because they look cool.

        Also, I would totally wear a planchette necklace
        Circe

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          #5
          Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

          What we call "creativity" is, in reality, the mixing and repurposing of ideas, images, sounds, etc., into a new form, with new meanings and new aesthetics.

          There is an idea that, at some point in the past, ethnic groups, cultures, religions were "pure," unsullied by intermingling with other groups. Considering our evolutionary history, this idea must be false.

          Mixing and repurposing to meet present needs or desires is the norm in history. Exceptions are extremely rare, generally due to isolation, and tend to lead to stagnation or regression (in New Guinea there was a tribe that, due to isolation, lost the ability to make fire, for example).
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

            You're basically making an assumption about the nature of the people wearing the symbols.

            Most Christians don't bat an eye when they see someone wearing a cross or crucifix (unless the person is noticeably Goth/emo/perverting the symbol somehow) because they make the assumption that the person wearing or displaying the symbol is also Christian/Catholic, etc.

            When I see someone wearing Pagan symbology, I make that same general assumption - that person might be Pagan/Wiccan/Satanic/an adherent of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever. Unless you ask every single person you encounter wearing a symbol that you believe to be sacred to you, you're only going on the assumption that they are wearing said symbol because it's trendy or cool. Neither assumption is the right or wrong way of looking at the situation - but assumptions can lead to poor judgment when it comes to getting to know other people.

            Being from the 70s/80s heyday of witchcraft & New Age frippery, I know I'm looking at an old-school Pagan or New Ager by the sheer number of crystals, bags, pentagrams, angelic symbols, beads, bones, feathers and fertility symbols they've draped themselves in. I knew local witches who went to the County courthouse wearing full ceremonial robes & jewelry to argue against stringent laws for psychic practitioners. Nowadays, I'm used to the most devout Pagans I know wearing nothing symbolic of their religion - not because the symbols have lost meaning, but because they are generally comfortable enough with their religion to not feel a need to advertise it at all.
            The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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              #7
              Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

              A'ight bruv, I'm an atheist. See my sig? It contains five symbols, all from different faiths. I like symbols. I'm not taking anything away from those faiths and those who believe they're more than symbols by using them.

              Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

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                #8
                Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                It bothers me as well, but that's a rare opinion. I've started a thread similar before to do with 'posers' and the replies were the same, we have a very accepting community here so nobody cares, it's a good thing.

                This whole misusing of symbols thing gets me going because of the amount of Nazi's I've had the delight of talking to who think that Thors Hammer and The Valknut represent "The power whites have from their heritage and the superiority of the race." So after dealing with ass hats like that I became a little biased in this area. I get why most people don't care though.
                White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
                sigpic
                In Days of yore,
                From Britain's shore
                Wolfe the dauntless hero came
                And planted firm Britannia's flag
                On Canada's fair domain.
                Here may it wave,
                Our boast, our pride
                And joined in love together,
                The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
                The Maple Leaf Forever.

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                  #9
                  Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                  Originally posted by Doc_Holliday View Post
                  It bothers me as well, but that's a rare opinion. I've started a thread similar before to do with 'posers' and the replies were the same, we have a very accepting community here so nobody cares, it's a good thing.

                  This whole misusing of symbols thing gets me going because of the amount of Nazi's I've had the delight of talking to who think that Thors Hammer and The Valknut represent "The power whites have from their heritage and the superiority of the race." So after dealing with ass hats like that I became a little biased in this area. I get why most people don't care though.
                  To be fair, most people aren't nazis (I hope). I have Vidar in my sig and own a mjolnir pendant made of bone and leather (from my earlier "searching" days). I just take him and it as a symbol of wisdom, silence, retribution, reticence and several other things that my mind has currently gone totally blank on xD I have respect for the things I see as symbols.
                  Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                    Huh. My little brother has a ouija board belt, it's got the letters on the belt and the belt buckle is the planchette. I thought it was pretty cool. I know some people use the boards, or similar methods, in their practice... but come on, I can go down to the toy store and buy a glow in the dark ouija board if I want to, why in the world would I be upset about someone wearing a ouija belt or shirt or whatever else?

                    As for wearing other symbols, I guess it depends on the context, you know? But for the most part, I'm in agreement with your friend, for the types of situations you mention I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
                    Hearth and Hedge

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                      #11
                      Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                      Truthfully it doesn't bother me simply do to the fact a lot of pagan add a woo woo factor to things that never were about religion / spirituality or such. Taking archaic symbols and giving them meanings or purposes that one can't even say applied as we don't know how or what they were used for. Like tarot, it was a pallor game not some woo woo thing that occultism / paganism has made them out to be.
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                        #12
                        Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                        What we call "creativity" is, in reality, the mixing and repurposing of ideas, images, sounds, etc., into a new form, with new meanings and new aesthetics.

                        There is an idea that, at some point in the past, ethnic groups, cultures, religions were "pure," unsullied by intermingling with other groups. Considering our evolutionary history, this idea must be false.

                        Mixing and repurposing to meet present needs or desires is the norm in history. Exceptions are extremely rare, generally due to isolation, and tend to lead to stagnation or regression (in New Guinea there was a tribe that, due to isolation, lost the ability to make fire, for example).
                        ^this



                        I don't give a fig what someone else wears to express themselves in whatever way they want to be seen as. I care more how much of an idiot they act like, regardless of what they are wearing.

                        IMO: Symbols are technology--just as much as fire, clothing, domesticated plants and animals, the alphabet, etc are. We've been swapping and stealing them from one another since the first modern human group split into two human groups and went their merry way. Getting angry over someone re-purposing your tech for something they find important and you find frivolous (ie, the development of their self-image) is a waste of time.
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                        sigpic

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                          #13
                          Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                          It really doesn't bother me.

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                            #14
                            Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                            Considering how long most of these symbols have been around and how many different things they've meant to different people, in different cultures at different times who can say who's interpretation of them are correct. It's not like anyone has copyright on them.
                            Just take the cross as an example. Today we think of Christianity whenever we see that symbol but it has existed in nearly all cultures in one for or another. So who has the "right of use" to crosses?

                            And someone wearing it to be "edgy"? That's their problem, not mine.
                            Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

                            An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

                            "Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)

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                              #15
                              Re: Rant/question: Ouija Board imagery on clothing and *similar matters*

                              And at this point (at the risk of incurring Godwin's law/rule.... ) I would say that we don't feel quite as tolerant of the swastika, do we? That too, has been around for thousands of years, and was only subverted for two decades during the 20th century. Countries such as India still regard it as a good luck symbol however. My Indian son-in-law was given a coconut inscribed with a red swastika when he got married. He saw nothing at all wrong with it until a visitor commented on his 'Nazi coconut.'
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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