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    Weight, Health and Social Image

    Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
    See I have an issue with people singing songs/spreading the message that its ok to be overweight. I have nothing against bugger people, hell I'm not skinny, but society is telling people it's ok to be fat. And dissing people for being skinny.

    Sigh

    /endrant
    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

    RIP

    I have never been across the way
    Seen the desert and the birds
    You cut your hair short
    Like a shush to an insult
    The world had been yelling
    Since the day you were born
    Revolting with anger
    While it smiled like it was cute
    That everything was shit.

    - J. Wylder

    #2
    Re: Whatcha listening to?

    Originally posted by Heka View Post
    but society is telling people it's ok to be fat. And dissing people for being skinny.

    Trust me, a handful of songs isn't indicative of a society telling people its okay to be fat. Even though medically speaking, being overweight is only a problem if one has high blood pressure, high cholesterol, insulin resistance, or other metabolic issues. Otherwise its just a number. I've seen too many outwardly fit looking people keel over with a heart attack in my years in the military to think that fat means unfit. Meanwhile, overweight people face plenty of discrimination when it comes to the workplace, customer service, etc.

    I actually had some stranger come up to me in a grocery store and "congratulate" me on what was in my cart (I killed the produce section since I missed the farmer's market), and asked me if I was "turning over a new leaf" (I'm overweight, but I'm not morbidly obese or anything). WTF? I've been shopping like this since I was in college!



    (I'm with TS, she's hot)
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
    sigpic

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Whatcha listening to?

      Society is sufficiently schizophrenic that I refuse to give it credit for actually having a consistent message on weight (or most other things for that matter).
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


      Comment


        #4
        Re: Whatcha listening to?

        /rant

        Right, because suicidally anorexic as portrayed in all other media is SO much healthier. A diet of heroin and caffeine clearly superior to a few extra pounds....

        See everytime someone says "but they are saying its okay to be fat" I want to slap people. IT IS OKAY TO BE WHATEVER YOU ARE. If telling people to hate themselves for being overweight worked, no one would ever be fat.

        /end rant

        Comment


          #5
          Being annorexic obviously isnt healthy either. I have an issue with those models just as much.

          The difference is nearly everyone has an issue with that, and now we have plus size models instead. Why can't we just have average, healthy, fit models as role models?

          Kids are beginning to understand that being a stick isn't healthy. Instead, they're being told its ok to be overweight and they don't look after themselves properly and are unhealthy.

          Time to bring the healthy back!
          ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

          RIP

          I have never been across the way
          Seen the desert and the birds
          You cut your hair short
          Like a shush to an insult
          The world had been yelling
          Since the day you were born
          Revolting with anger
          While it smiled like it was cute
          That everything was shit.

          - J. Wylder

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Whatcha listening to?

            I'd say the woman in that video IS average and looks quite healthy and gorgeous. That's my point. "Plus Size" models are normal size women, not fat women. They are women with normal BMIs. That's the whole problem. We're all so skewed we call normal women "plus" and can't even tell that's what we are doing.

            We need 100 move videos like this, and songs that tell you to love yourself and flaunt what you have, whatever that is. Because being physical is what makes you healthy, not being skinny. There are lots of overweight people who are healthy and many more that could be if they weren't too uncomfortable to move their bodies --and I'm not talking physical comfort but being able to work out without ridicule and without the requirement of getting smaller.

            We need to love ALL people anyway and stop being judge and jury for what other people look like.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
              I'd say the woman in that video IS average and looks quite healthy and gorgeous. That's my point. "Plus Size" models are normal size women, not fat women. They are women with normal BMIs. That's the whole problem. We're all so skewed we call normal women "plus" and can't even tell that's what we are doing.

              We need 100 move videos like this, and songs that tell you to love yourself and flaunt what you have, whatever that is. Because being physical is what makes you healthy, not being skinny. There are lots of overweight people who are healthy and many more that could be if they weren't too uncomfortable to move their bodies --and I'm not talking physical comfort but being able to work out without ridicule and without the requirement of getting smaller.

              We need to love ALL people anyway and stop being judge and jury for what other people look like.
              See I disagree, I think because of general obesity etc in the population what people consider average is not necessarily 'healthy'.

              I am always getting people telling me I dont need to lose weight because I look fine and I'm not fat, but I am overweight, except I look more or less like everyone else. So they tell me not to lose weight. When I really do need to lose weight. My bmi is over (though I don't tend to put much stock by it). And I'm not healthy. I carry a lot of extra weight and dont have a waist anymore. I want to change and I get no support from people around me.

              so yeah, this rant is sorta about me lol. But I stand by it!
              ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

              RIP

              I have never been across the way
              Seen the desert and the birds
              You cut your hair short
              Like a shush to an insult
              The world had been yelling
              Since the day you were born
              Revolting with anger
              While it smiled like it was cute
              That everything was shit.

              - J. Wylder

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                Posts pulled from Watcha Listenin Too.

                This is not in debates because I've seen discussions on a very similar topic board the Express Train to Hell and I'd vastly prefer this one stay nice and happy with the tone it's at.
                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                  Music DOES influence. It's like prayer - keep repeating it and it gets into your head on some level.
                  sigpic
                  Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                    Posts pulled from Watcha Listenin Too.

                    This is not in debates because I've seen discussions on a very similar topic board the Express Train to Hell and I'd vastly prefer this one stay nice and happy with the tone it's at.
                    I was just thinking this might be a good idea thanks MO
                    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                    RIP

                    I have never been across the way
                    Seen the desert and the birds
                    You cut your hair short
                    Like a shush to an insult
                    The world had been yelling
                    Since the day you were born
                    Revolting with anger
                    While it smiled like it was cute
                    That everything was shit.

                    - J. Wylder

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                      I'm thinking that, maybe, the best thing is:

                      A. Don't treat pop media, whether it is music or "news reporting" as if were sensible, meaningful, coherent philosophy. Look, compare, research, think, and arrive at your own conclusions that make sense in your own life.

                      B. Forget about saving "society" from violating principle "A." It is futile, a waste of one's time, presumptuous, pretentious, and highly annoying to the people one imagines one is helping.

                      In other words:

                      Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and irritates the pig.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                        I'm just echoing the crowd here. Fat doesn't equal unhealthy. Skinny doesn't equal healthy. Fat & skinny are adjectives (although fat is sometimes a noun when used to describe actual adipose tissue, oils, et al) indicating size, not health.

                        Apparently a lot of people are saying it's a 'skinny-shaming' song, but I feel that could easily be met with a 'check your privilege' argument.
                        The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                          Originally posted by Ophidia View Post
                          I'm just echoing the crowd here. Fat doesn't equal unhealthy. Skinny doesn't equal healthy. Fat & skinny are adjectives (although fat is sometimes a noun when used to describe actual adipose tissue, oils, et al) indicating size, not health.

                          Apparently a lot of people are saying it's a 'skinny-shaming' song, but I feel that could easily be met with a 'check your privilege' argument.
                          This right here. Hit every point.

                          It is okay to be fat. It's also okay to be skinny. It's also okay to be every shape in between.

                          What matters is how you take care of you. Health cannot be defined by a shape.

                          Do some people take it to far and use it as an excuse? Yes. Does that mean they deserve to be unhappy with their body? No.

                          Even the unhealthy deserve to be happy with themselves. You can seek improvement of yourself without having to be ashamed of what you have first.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                            Overweight and a little obese? I think whether or not we are accepting of that should generally depend on whether the person is making healthy life choices. You don't ridicule the fat guy at the gym, etc. If they are making an effort to help themselves, be encouraging, not discouraging. If they are generally healthy other than their weight? Let them live their life. It's just a number.

                            However, I have no problem with family and friends putting on the pressure when someone is just being lazy/doesn't care. In fact, I've been at that point and a little pressure from family and friends has encouraged me to get up and change my habits. Before I got pregnant, I weighed in at 185, and I'm 5'2" I was in the obese range. After having the baby, I actually lost a ton of weight, I dropped down under 170 for the first time since high school. And I've been working to keep it off. It was completely due to eating too much junk and not exercising, at all. Yeah, it's hard, and it can be annoying and hurtful to hear someone you care about say you aren't taking care of yourself and you need to do something about it. But it's also necessary for health and wellness.

                            Morbid obesity is called morbid for a reason. And anyone that fat needs to know it is not okay. Why is it not okay? Many reasons. People that overweight generally have a tough time holding a decent job that pays a living wage. And also they are generally going to have more health problems and more severe health problems. That means they are more likely to end up on state assistance, which means society in general is supporting them. My personal opinion is that if the general society is going to be supporting you, they have a right to comment on how you live your life. They have a right to tell you that you need to lose the weight and to say it's not okay for you to be lazy about your weight and health. Now, I'm not talking about those folk who could lose 10-50 lbs. But those that are 100+ lbs overweight. To me, it's just not acceptable, and it should never be acceptable. And yes, I know there are people who have thyroid problems, or disabilities that make keeping their weight under control next to impossible. If they are putting forth a valiant effort, I'm good with that. But not trying at all to keep severe obesity under control is a hot button for me.

                            That's part of the reason why I think generally overweight people get as much criticism as they do. If you in that 10-50 lbs overweight range, you seen as being at much greater risk for becoming morbidly obese, after all, your almost half way there. And society wants to nip that in the bud. (Mind you, I still fit in that range. I'm still technically borderline obese. I'm at about 165 and I need to get under 140 before I'm in the "normal" weight range according to BMI.)
                            We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

                            I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
                            It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
                            Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
                            -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

                            Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

                              Originally posted by Shahaku View Post
                              And society wants to nip that in the bud.
                              Why is it the business of "society" to intrude into any personal choice I or anybody else makes?

                              If any other personal choice were being discussed (ranging from whether or not to carry a baby to term to whether or not to marry someone of the same sex) people would loudly (& proudly) exclaim "It's my choice. Get out of my life!"
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                              Comment

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