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  • What's the difference between the two?

    Hi everybody!
    So I've recently thought about it and decided to post the question here: What is the difference between a Shaman and a Druid?
    What does each focus on? What is the purpose of each?
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

  • #2
    Re: What's the difference between the two?

    There's a very large difference. As in... they are not even really in the same sort of equatable category of practitioner. Some aspects of Druidry MIGHT be considered shamanic in some circles, but that's debatable.

    I don't really have the brain cells for a more in depth answer than that right now... and honestly I don't really know enough about Druidry to answer about what their focus and purpose is. My experience and knowledge lies more towards shamanism.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What's the difference between the two?

      Druidry (or Druidism) is a subset of Celtic (and sometimes Celtic-ish) Paganism. What Druidry is/is not really depends on the group practicing it (more info can be found here). It may or may not include Shamanic techniques, and someone that is a Druid may or may not also identify as a practitioner of Shamanism.
      “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

      “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
      ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

      "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
      ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

      "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

      Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What's the difference between the two?

        Thanks very much to you both! The links was very useful, Thal!
        "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



        Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What's the difference between the two?

          Hahaha I cant believe there's actually a thread here. I have this argument all the time with my boyfriend. He thinks there's some difference (thanks world of warcraft) and then theres me going "omg babe, druids are just celtic shamans!" But thats what I find attractive about shamanism, its a simple, foundational term that explains a core element of some spiritual practice. The word itself came from Siberia. If the word hadnt evolved into something more generalized we'd all be talking about russian shamanism (and I dont think that is the case).

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What's the difference between the two?

            I don't know a lot about shamanism (or druidry really).. but first impressions leads me to think that druidry/ism is more like a set of values/beliefs whereas shamanism is a practical technique.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What's the difference between the two?

              Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
              I don't know a lot about shamanism (or druidry really).. but first impressions leads me to think that druidry/ism is more like a set of values/beliefs whereas shamanism is a practical technique.
              Yeah, I think so too.
              "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



              Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What's the difference between the two?

                You forgot to say, 'Thanks, Captain Obvious!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What's the difference between the two?

                  Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                  I don't know a lot about shamanism (or druidry really).. but first impressions leads me to think that druidry/ism is more like a set of values/beliefs whereas shamanism is a practical technique.
                  You're absolutely right, though. Druidry uses practices that are shamanic in nature, but the basic beliefs of those two paths are inherently different. A while ago I visited a site on druidry where the same question was asked, and there a druid stated that in itself there isn't a huge difference besides the basic beliefs. However, he also said that shamanic practices are far more primitive then druidic ones. Though IMHO that statement is very degrading towards the shamanic community.

                  - - - Updated - - -]


                  Well, I sound a lot like a college professor here, don't I? Sorry about that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What's the difference between the two?

                    Originally posted by Hagazusa View Post
                    ...However, he also said that shamanic practices are far more primitive then druidic ones. Though IMHO that statement is very degrading towards the shamanic community.




                    I wonder why that member said such a thing. It does sound degrading. Did he expand on that?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What's the difference between the two?

                      I'd say the key feature is that Druid is a caste within the Celtic culture. Seldom is it an individual but almost a priest like system with multiple individuals. In most Shamanic situations it is an individual that many times is selected by Spirit or an elder and is trained one on one. In a great many first nation or aboriginal systems there is only one practitioner per group and perhaps a student under study. In many instances located outside of the social order and functions as an extra guide / adviser between the group and the spirit world. A critical aspect being that the shaman functions within the spiritual / religious functionality of the people they serve and advise.

                      I'd think the manner of being selected is often quite different between those of a Druid and that of a Shaman. Figure Druidic wise one may be born into the caste of the Druid and be slated for that pathway or one may under neo-Druidism pursue entry into it. In most instances Shaman are not born into a shamanic lineage but most importantly have to experience a physical death, shamanic sickness / illness or some other extraordinary event. While Neo-shamanism allows for self selection and self identification it is the exception vice the rule found in first nation and aboriginal peoples.

                      There is some similarity in that the Druid and Shaman can be focused towards healing but does not have to be. Consider the warrior shaman who would go on raids or into battle with the warrior class overseeing the psychological aspects of preparation for battle and death. Then you had the shamanic individual that served in a fertility / fecundity aspect using their skills and gifts for the welfare of their own people but would employ them against another people to undermine or destroy the fertility / fecundity of an opponent. One also might discover the shaman whose sole purpose was to read and interact with the hidden spirit world and utilize that knowledge in guiding / advising why herds vanished, crops failed, why allies and such were causing illness / death but not being seen in a healer capacity.

                      In my experience the only people who claim them to be the same or closely similar are those who compare the neo aspects of Shamanism and Druidry. Usually at the expense of ignoring the cultural, social, functional and spiritual roles each played and how they were fitted into the social fabric. Especially the aspect of their being a unified druidic notion and authority listed in many older texts and stories that is never found in shamanic references and records. One of the reasons I suppose so many say it was such an easy task for the Druids to be incorporated into the Celtic Church when you look to Ireland for instance or some Britanic references, perhaps even some Welsh stories.
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What's the difference between the two?

                        Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                        I wonder why that member said such a thing. It does sound degrading. Did he expand on that?
                        Nope. Not at all. Must've been an elitist who didn't like being compared to those "barbaric" shamans.

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                        I'd say the key feature is that Druid is a caste within the Celtic culture. Seldom is it an individual but almost a priest like system with multiple individuals. In most Shamanic situations it is an individual that many times is selected by Spirit or an elder and is trained one on one. In a great many first nation or aboriginal systems there is only one practitioner per group and perhaps a student under study. In many instances located outside of the social order and functions as an extra guide / adviser between the group and the spirit world. A critical aspect being that the shaman functions within the spiritual / religious functionality of the people they serve and advise.

                        I'd think the manner of being selected is often quite different between those of a Druid and that of a Shaman. Figure Druidic wise one may be born into the caste of the Druid and be slated for that pathway or one may under neo-Druidism pursue entry into it. In most instances Shaman are not born into a shamanic lineage but most importantly have to experience a physical death, shamanic sickness / illness or some other extraordinary event. While Neo-shamanism allows for self selection and self identification it is the exception vice the rule found in first nation and aboriginal peoples.

                        There is some similarity in that the Druid and Shaman can be focused towards healing but does not have to be. Consider the warrior shaman who would go on raids or into battle with the warrior class overseeing the psychological aspects of preparation for battle and death. Then you had the shamanic individual that served in a fertility / fecundity aspect using their skills and gifts for the welfare of their own people but would employ them against another people to undermine or destroy the fertility / fecundity of an opponent. One also might discover the shaman whose sole purpose was to read and interact with the hidden spirit world and utilize that knowledge in guiding / advising why herds vanished, crops failed, why allies and such were causing illness / death but not being seen in a healer capacity.

                        In my experience the only people who claim them to be the same or closely similar are those who compare the neo aspects of Shamanism and Druidry. Usually at the expense of ignoring the cultural, social, functional and spiritual roles each played and how they were fitted into the social fabric. Especially the aspect of their being a unified druidic notion and authority listed in many older texts and stories that is never found in shamanic references and records. One of the reasons I suppose so many say it was such an easy task for the Druids to be incorporated into the Celtic Church when you look to Ireland for instance or some Britanic references, perhaps even some Welsh stories.
                        Thank you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What's the difference between the two?

                          Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                          I wonder why that member said such a thing. It does sound degrading. Did he expand on that?

                          I can't say in this instance, without knowing the context of the statement, or more about the person in general...but primitive isn't always an insult.



                          And with that being said...

                          Originally posted by Ticklebits View Post
                          Hahaha I cant believe there's actually a thread here. I have this argument all the time with my boyfriend. He thinks there's some difference (thanks world of warcraft) and then theres me going "omg babe, druids are just celtic shamans!" But thats what I find attractive about shamanism, its a simple, foundational term that explains a core element of some spiritual practice. The word itself came from Siberia. If the word hadnt evolved into something more generalized we'd all be talking about russian shamanism (and I dont think that is the case).

                          Druids are no more "just Celtic shaman" than a priest of ancient Rome or Greece would be a Roman or Greek shaman.

                          Certainly, there is now a strong vein of Celtic (usually core) shamanism in modern Druidry, but not every Druid incorporates shamanic practices in their practice, and its a long way (IMO) between adopting shamanic practices and legitimately calling oneself a shaman.

                          The ancient Druids were a priesthood (and here I'll totally disagree with Monsno)--there is not enough enough actual archaeological evidence to say whether or not that priesthood was a priestly caste or a priestly order (or a mix of the two, in which one could be called in, or called out of service). Further more, we don't know enough about Druid practices to say whether or not they were shamanic in nature or not, whether in total or in part. This is no different than, say...the priestly caste/culture of the Mississippan culture in the Americas. We have ideas, we have suppositions, we have tons of wishful thinking (on both ends of the stick), and we have very little evidence that clearly supports any one line of thinking.


                          This question is sort of like asking what's the difference between music and hockey.
                          “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

                          “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
                          ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

                          "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
                          ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

                          "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

                          Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What's the difference between the two?

                            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                            .. The ancient Druids were a priesthood (and here I'll totally disagree with Monsno)--there is not enough enough actual archaeological evidence to say whether or not that priesthood was a priestly caste or a priestly order (or a mix of the two, in which one could be called in, or called out of service). Further more, we don't know enough about Druid practices to say whether or not they were shamanic in nature or not, whether in total or in part. This is no different than, say...the priestly caste/culture of the Mississippan culture in the Americas. We have ideas, we have suppositions, we have tons of wishful thinking (on both ends of the stick), and we have very little evidence that clearly supports any one line of thinking.


                            This question is sort of like asking what's the difference between music and hockey.
                            I can agree with and support that. It's all subjective I suppose with the limited info we actually have as to whether it was a cast, calling or society.
                            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What's the difference between the two?

                              Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                              I'd say the key feature is that Druid is a caste within the Celtic culture. Seldom is it an individual but almost a priest like system with multiple individuals. In most Shamanic situations it is an individual that many times is selected by Spirit or an elder and is trained one on one. In a great many first nation or aboriginal systems there is only one practitioner per group and perhaps a student under study. In many instances located outside of the social order and functions as an extra guide / adviser between the group and the spirit world. A critical aspect being that the shaman functions within the spiritual / religious functionality of the people they serve and advise.

                              I'd think the manner of being selected is often quite different between those of a Druid and that of a Shaman. Figure Druidic wise one may be born into the caste of the Druid and be slated for that pathway or one may under neo-Druidism pursue entry into it. In most instances Shaman are not born into a shamanic lineage but most importantly have to experience a physical death, shamanic sickness / illness or some other extraordinary event. While Neo-shamanism allows for self selection and self identification it is the exception vice the rule found in first nation and aboriginal peoples.

                              There is some similarity in that the Druid and Shaman can be focused towards healing but does not have to be. Consider the warrior shaman who would go on raids or into battle with the warrior class overseeing the psychological aspects of preparation for battle and death. Then you had the shamanic individual that served in a fertility / fecundity aspect using their skills and gifts for the welfare of their own people but would employ them against another people to undermine or destroy the fertility / fecundity of an opponent. One also might discover the shaman whose sole purpose was to read and interact with the hidden spirit world and utilize that knowledge in guiding / advising why herds vanished, crops failed, why allies and such were causing illness / death but not being seen in a healer capacity.

                              In my experience the only people who claim them to be the same or closely similar are those who compare the neo aspects of Shamanism and Druidry. Usually at the expense of ignoring the cultural, social, functional and spiritual roles each played and how they were fitted into the social fabric. Especially the aspect of their being a unified druidic notion and authority listed in many older texts and stories that is never found in shamanic references and records. One of the reasons I suppose so many say it was such an easy task for the Druids to be incorporated into the Celtic Church when you look to Ireland for instance or some Britanic references, perhaps even some Welsh stories.
                              Tanks for your input, Monsno_leedra!
                              "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                              Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

                              Comment

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