Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33

Thread: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

  1. #1
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,675
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Solitary Pagan
    Location
    Germany

    Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    So, a few days ago, this happened in Germany: http://www.thelocal.de/20140909/germ...ng-rule-of-law

    To summarize, a few guys dressed up in vests that said "Sharia police" and started citing people for infringements on Sharia law such as drinking alcohol and gambling. Basically, they just lectured a bunch of people for infringements against their values. The police stopped them and they may be charged with "disturbing public order."

    Now, although I don't think people should be allowed to enforce Sharia law in Germany, I don't think actions like this count as "enforcing Sharia law." They did not -do- anything to "offenders." As the article quotes a writer for Tagesspiegel: "But writing in the Tagesspiegel newspaper, journalist Malte Lehming pointed out that Christian groups had long carried out action in the centre of Hamburg’s red light district, the Reeperbahn. Lehming added that freedom to preach religious beliefs was protected in the German constitution. “As long as ‘Sharia Police’ and singing evangelists don’t force anybody into something, they can do what they want. A knee-jerk reaction only plays into the hands of the Islamist provocateurs." I think the comparison to Christian groups protesting and handing out pamphlets around the Reeperbahn is a good comparison, because it's pretty much the same thing, but highly tolerated. I think that, although these guys were probably annoying and obnoxious, they did not break the law. They did not take any physical actions to enforce their "laws." They did not do anything to incite hatred or violence against offenders. They pretty much just preached at people. Annoying people isn't against the law, and we supposedly have the right to be offensive here (in most cases, anyway).

  2. #2
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,036
    Religion
    Theistic Satanism
    Location
    Poitiers, France
    Phrase
    Strength in Will, peace in well-being.

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    It's decided. I'm going to Germany to preach.

    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

  3. #3
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,675
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Solitary Pagan
    Location
    Germany

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    I think it also has to do with the place. People preach all sorts of things in Berlin and on one cares. In a big city, if police cared that much about random acts of public strangeness, they wouldn't have time to solve any actual crimes.

  4. #4
    Loud Mouth Heka's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,918
    Religion
    Northern Tradition Neo-Paganism
    Location
    South Australia
    Phrase
    I drink, and I know things
    I have no issue with it, as long as we are comparing it to the above example, and they're not harassing people walking in and out of pubs etc, and just on the street like your average annoying christian.

    Knee jerk reaction perhaps because they are muslim? Hmm
    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

    RIP

    I have never been across the way
    Seen the desert and the birds
    You cut your hair short
    Like a shush to an insult
    The world had been yelling
    Since the day you were born
    Revolting with anger
    While it smiled like it was cute
    That everything was shit.

    - J. Wylder

  5. #5
    Member LeviImmortal's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    61
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Dark Pagan
    Location
    New Jersey

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    I don't know too much about German law, but first I look at precedent. If Christians are able to preach and hand out pamphlets to German passersby, then the Muslims or people of any faith/religion should be able to do the same. They aren't committing any heinous act but are just using their right to free speech. However, I do think the whole peace and harmony issue seems more societal than anything. If places generally keep to themselves and topics such as religion are seen as personal, dealing with annoying preachers who be frowned upon and no one would do it.

  6. #6
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,646
    Religion
    Shamanic Practitioner & Green / Hedge Witch with Hellenic leanings
    Location
    West Virginia
    Phrase
    Can't never did nothing till it tried!

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    I don't know. Preaching a theology seems a bit different than pushing a theological law that's responsible for people being stoned to death or beheaded and currently enforced in quite a few countries. While its not being acted upon directly it's given a sense of approval and acceptance by not acting against it. Not entirely different in scope than how the KKK or Black Panthers used to do things in public to gauge public support and willingness to accept it.
    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

  7. #7
    Member
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    26
    Gender
    male
    Religion
    Buddhist
    Location
    Singapore
    Phrase
    Be who you are, not who you should be

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    For the fact that the world now has a negative perception of the Muslims in general, it's no surprise that any piece of bad news regarding the Muslims will be lambasted by the media to promote this worthless sense of boogeyman hate.

    And these 'preachers' are just feeding their ignorance. They seem to have a warped view of the Sharia law, in which if I remember it states that it is against the law to force any person to convert into Islam, while doesn't directly apply to the issue here, does indirectly imply that no one can force sharia law upon others. The Sharia law also states to protect basic human rights, like not getting bombarded by talking drones while eating a nice creamy bowl of pumpkin soup, but as humanity takes it's course, someone has to wear the dick hat and do really stupid things.

    ->monsno_leedra
    As far as I know, that happens in some countries in the Middle East, and it's more of a badly developed culture than the religion itself, other Islamic states across Asia aren't as.... extreme as you would perceive, such as Malaysia for instance.

  8. #8
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    11,238
    Religion
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    Location
    coastal Georgia
    Phrase
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    If someone asked for them to leave them alone, did they comply?
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  9. #9
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,675
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Solitary Pagan
    Location
    Germany

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    If someone asked for them to leave them alone, did they comply?
    That's actually a good question. I'm not sure about that. If not, then I guess the charges could be justified.

    It could be really easy to read into the situation, because there were a few arrests recently in connection to a terrorist plot in Frankfurt. A lot of people are a little on edge, so it makes the rest of us wonder if the police were overreacting. Also, this country (like most western countries) has a habit of treating Muslims differently than Christians. But that doesn't mean that they weren't crossing the line into harassment. I'll see if any other media outlets have more info. Most just reported the situation with their commentary, with the conservative outlets like Welt saying "Oh no, they can't impose Isalmic law in Germany!" and the liberal media like Tagesspiegel saying "no one cares when Christians do the exact same thing."

  10. #10
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    11,037
    Religion
    stregheria

    Re: Freedom of speech/religion/assembly vs. keeping the peace

    Really sometimes I think the whole "Freedom of speech" thing might be a bit over used. I am not against the right to speak,but I think many really over use it and abuse it. You I think have the right to NOT be hounded by "Free speech". Like the idea free speech does not give you the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

Similar Threads

  1. Algiz Rune and the Peace Sign
    By Norse_Angel in forum Heathen Traditions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03 Mar 2015, 15:12
  2. Finally some kind of peace
    By mmc411 in forum Celtic Traditions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 23 Jan 2015, 10:24
  3. Freedom:What does it really mean?
    By anunitu in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 15 May 2014, 16:30
  4. Freedom of Religion and free speech
    By anunitu in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 05 Apr 2013, 06:36

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •