Curses and the Like

[Aeran]

Re: Curses and the Like

Always seemed useless to me, there's nothing a curse can achieve that can't be achieved by a good punch to the nose or a bit of defensive magic.

[Noir]

[Ula]

Re: Curses and the Like

I have done one curse and it was in regard to some crap that went down with my kid. If you are going to do it make sure you are not going to feel bad later. Not really a good thing to do them and then be racked with guilt.

[Nightingale]

Re: Curses and the Like

I generally use battle art for the same reason I use physical force. If you are a direct and malicious threat to someone under my protection or to myself then you forfeit 90% of the protections offered by my code of ethics. Otherwise, I have other things to do.

I like that term, "battle art." and I can definitely agree with your sentiment.

[Night Wizard]

Re: Curses and the Like

Hey folks. I was curious as to everyone's thoughts and ideas on the subject matter. See, something happened that has put me into a state in which I feel that there is a need for vengeance or retaliation. Now, as I do not believe in the "Rule of Three" or that "Do as thou wilt, lest ye harm none" stuff, I feel that there can be times in which taking direct action is warranted. Some had once asked me how I could be willing to strike out against someone who has done wrong to me or mine when I believed in a concept similar to karma. My response was "Easy. How do you know that my actions are not the direct result of that person's karma?"

I have been working on the crafting of a nithing pole, and that got me thinking as to what other people's views are regarding this.

The Law of Three is commonly misunderstood. It is thought to mean, that which is done to others is returned to sender by a multiple of three.

This is incorrect.

What it really means, is if someone is to wrong you, you are justified in striking back three times as hard; to prevent any further grievance.

I personally, would never use a nidstang.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Curses and the Like

I like that term, "battle art." and I can definitely agree with your sentiment.

Hexing and cursing tend to carry connotations I don't care for. Battle art can apply to a nice wide range of options and is pretty straightforward in its implications.

[Aeran]

Re: Curses and the Like

Those connotations exist for a reason. I don't think the label "battle" is applicable unless the target is also a practitioner of at least some level of proficiency. A battle implies an exchange between two forces who are both aware of what's going on, entered into it at least somewhat willingly and are both at least somewhere in the same ballpark in terms of their ability to attack and defend.

Using magic to harm someone who doesn't even believe it exists, let alone know anything about how to defend themselves or harm you back (ie. 99%+ of the population), is no different than a trained marksmen shooting someone unarmed and unwarned from a hundred meters away, except in terms of the degree of damage likely to result.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Curses and the Like

Those connotations exist for a reason. I don't think the label "battle" is applicable unless the target is also a practitioner of at least some level of proficiency. A battle implies an exchange between two forces who are both aware of what's going on, entered into it at least somewhat willingly and are both at least somewhere in the same ballpark in terms of their ability to attack and defend.

Using magic to harm someone who doesn't even believe it exists, let alone know anything about how to defend themselves or harm you back (ie. 99%+ of the population), is no different than a trained marksmen shooting someone unarmed and unwarned from a hundred meters away, except in terms of the degree of damage likely to result.

If you aren't a willing and determined threat to myself or those under my care then I don't use it and if you are one then I'm not inclined to be fair. I don't use this type of trick to punish but I determine battle at the point an aggressor demonstrates determination to harm myself or those under my care and all options are on the table till that threat either backs down or is forcibly halted. I don't see a need to meet the aggressor on ground of their choice. I'm not dueling to defend my honor when this type of art is on the table, I'm seeking to end a threat.

[SleepingCompass]

Re: Curses and the Like

This kind of thing seems like such a slippery slope to me... And I don't think you can perform this kind of magic and come out of it entirely unscathed... It's not something I would undertake lightly.

[Ula]

Re: Curses and the Like

When I did mine there were 10 people involved in what happened. I asked the god I was working with on the matter to judge whether the intent was to screw my kid and if so that they get justice. Some had things happen, some didn't. I accepted that since I wanted justice not death, or pain, or suffering. That was what I could live with and have never worried about it since.

[thalassa]

Re: Curses and the Like

This kind of thing seems like such a slippery slope to me... And I don't think you can perform this kind of magic and come out of it entirely unscathed... It's not something I would undertake lightly.

I only enter a fight that I think is important enough that it is worth getting my ass kicked for.

Don't get me wrong, I still go in it to win.

That pretty much limits things to my children, my spouse, some close family, a handful of favorite friends, and a couple of ideals. In some situations, it might extend to other children or otherwise powerless individuals.

[Torey]

Re: Curses and the Like

And I don't think you can perform this kind of magic and come out of it entirely unscathed... It's not something I would undertake lightly.

I agree that Maleficium is not something that should be undertaken lightly.

However, I disagree that performing such magick means that the caster will be negatively impacted in some way. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are regarding this statement that one cannot perform this kind of magick and come out of it entirely unscathed.

When I did mine there were 10 people involved in what happened. I asked the god I was working with on the matter to judge whether the intent was to screw my kid and if so that they get justice. Some had things happen, some didn't. I accepted that since I wanted justice not death, or pain, or suffering. That was what I could live with and have never worried about it since.

For me personally, I don't see this as a curse at all. This was asking an external entity/intelligence to intervene on one's behalf.

[Aeran]

Re: Curses and the Like

If you aren't a willing and determined threat to myself or those under my care then I don't use it and if you are one then I'm not inclined to be fair. I don't use this type of trick to punish but I determine battle at the point an aggressor demonstrates determination to harm myself or those under my care and all options are on the table till that threat either backs down or is forcibly halted. I don't see a need to meet the aggressor on ground of their choice. I'm not dueling to defend my honor when this type of art is on the table, I'm seeking to end a threat.

Can you give an example of a threat which has been ended in this manner? Because I don't see how it would be practical in a real life situation.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Curses and the Like

Can you give an example of a threat which has been ended in this manner? Because I don't see how it would be practical in a real life situation.

I live a fairly quiet life and I treat this type of trick with the caution that I treat a firearm. Nothing has met my requirements to step past protections and in one case banishing someone from my life. I can think of one case where I could have made an argument for something worse but I didn't feel comfortable taking such a step at the time so I set a protection on a friend and let things progress as they would.

[SleepingCompass]

Re: Curses and the Like

I agree that Maleficium is not something that should be undertaken lightly.

However, I disagree that performing such magick means that the caster will be negatively impacted in some way. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are regarding this statement that one cannot perform this kind of magick and come out of it entirely unscathed.

Taking into consideration that these kinds of things are very hard to prove, and I could very well be wrong and this is just my personal opinion, but the best way to describe my view point is by the following dialogue from Xena (I think there are truths hidden in fiction, so I know this isn't the best way to defend my opinions, but this is where I got this particular opinion from):

Gabrielle: I could have killed someone. I mean I was capable of it.
Xena: We're all capable of it. The point is -- you didn't cross that line.
Gabrielle: But I got close enough to peek over. And what I saw scared me.
Xena: See how calm the surface of the water is. That was me once. And then...
[throws stone in water]
Xena: The water ripples and churns; that's what I became.
Gabrielle: But if we sit here long enough it will go back to being still again. It will go back to being calm.
Xena: But the stone's still under there. It's now part of the lake. It might look as it did before, but it's forever changed.

In my opinion, every dark/negative act leaves some residue behind. I don't particularly believe in fast acting punishment karma, so I don't think you'll be struck down by lightning or something for having done what you've done, and yes, I think you can heal and become still again, but that mark of what you did is always with you. I think those marks will weigh on you and change you; make you more inclined to similar acts because once you start to sink, it's hard to turn around and come back.

I also think that if something bad enough happened to someone I love, I probably wouldn't care about losing something of my current self at that point, and I could see a situation where I would resort to this. But I do think there is a price to be paid, and, like I already said, it's not something I would undertake lightly.