false gods

[LunarHarvest]

Re: false gods

heh, I would have said it the other way round, ie, "what exists spiritually has a physical nature to it." There really is no difference, though, they go together like phloem and xylem.

I personally say "physical" first and "spiritual" second because of how I view their relations to each other. The physical nature of a thing has a direct effect on the existence of that thing's spiritual nature. That being said, its literally just two words which describe two different elements and parts of the same thing, so like you said there really isn't a difference when you go to the most base nature of these things.

[thalassa]

Re: false gods

That seems a smart move to not claim creation to be honest. I find that more believing than if a god said yeah, I made it all. I did not know this. Thanks for the share!

In Greek mythology, the Protogenoi are the primeval gods of Greece--they, literally *are* the sea, the land, the sky, the dawn, the darkness, time itself, even procreation. Sure, the Greeks (via myth) put a human face on them, gave them a persona, and put them in their stories...but they aren't anything akin to humanity (in the same way one might expect that the gods of Olympus are). Gaia *is* the Earth, literally...Pontos and Thalassa *are* the sea (the latter being the Mediterranean Sea, or the sea's surface specifically). Also, the Greeks had a number of cosmonogies, none of which were the same, but all of which start with these gods--these elements being the literal body of origin...and the reason for this is that the Greeks ideas about their gods and the place of their gods in their world was constantly evolving as their understanding of the world and their societal views changed.

[anunitu]

Re: false gods

In many ways,Gods are only what humans define them as. Question is,if mankind(Humans) did not believe in the Gods,would they in fact have ever existed. As Thal says,natural elements have been connected to the God concept,but still how did this evolve into what we today define as a god like entity. Chicken or egg..same question,different subject..?

[noinden]

Re: false gods

Here's a little question that might put things straight;
Humans have been existed about 35 000 years. (i involve Cro-Magnon humans in this time period because modern human originates from them.) Christianity was "invented" 2000 years ago. So, if christian god is only true god - are all those people who have lived before Christianity burning their eternity in hell because they didn't know the one true god?
I mean, seriously guys... 33 000 years - billions of people, and there was not single one good person worth of saving? Worth of "heaven", some other paradise, reincarnation or what ever?

I'll rest my case.

Ooo boy that's a hot mess of a theory.

(a) Humans (and I assume you mean Homo sapiens ? Have been around a lot longer than 35K years, "Cro-Magnon" is still Homo sapien
(b) Christianity while around 2000 years old (less really as JC had to die, and his cult had to spread, indeed what we call Christianity today is more like 1500 years old but that's a quibble
(c) You've not really made a case here.

Basically the idea of "false god" is some Abrahamic posturing to gain a better market share They have no way of showing their Deity is unique, supreme, or existing. Pagans like myself have no way of showing our deity exists either. Its faith based.

If someone is bothered by the opinion of another about our faith, then honestly something is bothering that someone. Its taken me 43 years to get to where I am, and the older I get the less I give a damn about how someone else defines my faith for me

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I can't speak for all polytheists, but for me, the creator gods didn't create THIS world, but their world. Because frankly, I don't believe it's possible that fifty different gods created this world in ways that science tells us is not physically possible. So it's not THIS world the stories are about, but their world in the Otherworlds. This is where my literal belief in worlds other than this one comes in real handy... it makes everything else make sense.

Also, I don't believe that there are any The Right One gods. I work with my gods because I like them, not because they are better or More Right than any other gods. The choice to work with one god over another is very rarely about 'mine is better than yours and my stories are more right than yours' but about what speaks to us personally. It's about what's right for ME, not what's Right, Period.

My gods aren't always correct, I don't always agree with them, I explicitly disagree with some of the things they've done or said, none of them are infallible, and they certainly aren't The Shiznit.

So why do I worship and work with them? Because it presses my spirituality buttons in ways that people don't. I like my gods, flaws and all. I like some other people's gods. It fills a need within myself and helps me to be the person that I want to be. Sure, I could do that without any faith or spirituality, but I wouldn't enjoy it as much. My desire for a spiritual outlet is completely hedonistic... it's about me, not other people.

You are at least lucky to have a semi creation myth still available Those of us who follow the Gaelic paths have none, and we don't really mind either. Big deal, the creation of the Universe was likely not easily put into myth form, and does not concern us anyhow. A deities followers who have to make it all about that deity really have a fragile group ego

[Willow]

Re: false gods

Bit off-topic, but I like this quote.

If someone is bothered by the opinion of another about our faith, then honestly something is bothering that someone. Its taken me 43 years to get to where I am, and the older I get the less I give a damn about how someone else defines my faith for me

[nbdy]

Re: false gods

In many ways,Gods are only what humans define them as. Question is,if mankind(Humans) did not believe in the Gods,would they in fact have ever existed. As Thal says,natural elements have been connected to the God concept,but still how did this evolve into what we today define as a god like entity. Chicken or egg..same question,different subject..?

"What is God/a god?" is an excellent question, with perhaps limitless answers. I think that is probably its own thread, or maybe it is around here somewhere. I don't have time to look for it tonight, and I'm not sober anyway.

[LunarHarvest]

Re: false gods

In many ways,Gods are only what humans define them as. Question is,if mankind(Humans) did not believe in the Gods,would they in fact have ever existed. As Thal says,natural elements have been connected to the God concept,but still how did this evolve into what we today define as a god like entity. Chicken or egg..same question,different subject..?

I would say that the Gods would have to exist because we exist. So long as there is a physical nature to a thing then their is a spiritual nature to that same thing, and human beings are no exception to the rule. The ignorance of the existence of something, or quality of something, does not make that thing no longer exist.

The many centuries in which the world was believed to be flat, or the sun revolving around Earth, did not change the fact that the world is round and it orbits the Sun. A lack of belief only causes the disexistence within the human mind, but that does not mean that the actual thing properly disappears.

That is my opinion on the topic though.

"What is God/a god?" is an excellent question, with perhaps limitless answers. I think that is probably its own thread, or maybe it is around here somewhere. I don't have time to look for it tonight, and I'm not sober anyway.

Ah, ignosticism. The question of "What is God/a god?" is one of those questions. The type which fits right alongside the questioning of "What is reality?" or "What is truth?" Venturing into these areas can easily take up a lot of time and discussions, but I suppose that is just the nature of philosophy. :3

[anunitu]

Re: false gods

I believe I figured this all out,way back in that 3 week acid run..but I don't remember the answer...But the lights sure were cool....

[B. de Corbin]

Re: false gods

I believe I figured this all out,way back in that 3 week acid run..but I don't remember the answer...But the lights sure were cool....

I remember.

It was Jimmy Hendrix.

[nbdy]

Re: false gods

I would say that the Gods would have to exist because we exist.

But which came first, a god or the idea of a god?

I suppose that is just the nature of philosophy. :3

hehe

[Heka]

But which came first, a god or the idea of a god?

hehe

Oh chicken, eggs, they all taste good, so who cares? Haha

[LunarHarvest]

Re: false gods

But which came first, a god or the idea of a god?



hehe

No way to prove it, but in my opinion nature has always existed, but has merely changed its state of existence over time. This would lead me to conclude that the Gods existed, and then we came up with a more formal sense of recognising their existence in the world around us and within ourselves. That is my answer at least, and it comes with my personal understanding of theology.

Now asking me to 'prove' such things as if God(s), or the concept of God(s), came first, or even the origins of the universe itself, that I admittedly cannot prove.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: false gods

But which came first, a god or the idea of a god?

I like the story where God creates itself by thinking.

So the answer to your question is - "Yes."

[nbdy]

Re: false gods

I like the story where God creates itself by thinking.

So the answer to your question is - "Yes."

omg -- Descartes is God!

[B. de Corbin]

Re: false gods

omg -- Descartes is God!

LOL - I was thinking more of some of the Gnostic groups, but, yeah, I guess he works, too.