Scared in our own homes?

[Gleb]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

I can relate to this, to be honest. There are no gang members where I live, only high school students in their senior year and older, usually it's between 17, until 20 years old who smoke in a park not far from my home, but they are harmless. There are not terrorists either.
BUT! I can understand the the feeling of not being safe in my zone of living. Especially when remembering the last two wars in Israel. It was really terrifying. So yes, I can relate to this.

In my opinion, the question is not "when will we start to feel afraid?", but "Will we allow it to go any further?".

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

Just updating to let you know that one of the soldiers that was hit passed away this morning of their injuries. Tragic as hell.

[Gleb]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

Too bad... Only shows that action should be done in this matter.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

What kind of action, though? This guy was likely acting alone, influenced by stuff on the Internet, and he was shot dead by the police. I think we probably do need to ask ourselves why more and more people are resorting to mass murder and public murder for various reasons, whether it's because they're men's rights activists, because they're far-right wingers, they converted to fundamental Islam, they're just plain nuts, or any other reason (all of those have happened over the past few years). But some kind of "anti-terror" measure based on this incident? Nope. Please stay sane, Canada.

[thalassa]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

But some kind of "anti-terror" measure based on this incident? Nope. Please stay sane, Canada.

How about this one?


At some point, security needs to be proactive if it going to work.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

How about this one?


At some point, security needs to be proactive if it going to work.

We still don't know if that's a terror-related incident, a terrorism-inspired incident (as the rundown in Quebec was), or a crazy dude who went on a shooting spree. I do agree that security is clearly too lax at the capital. BUT I still don't think we should be on some kind of orange alert.

Like I said before, we need to ask ourselves why our own citizens are committing such violent acts. When I was growing up in Canada, violent crime was unheard of. We had one school shooting when I was 14...ONE. And until a few years ago, that was an isolated incident. I'm also wondering WTF is going on with gun control in Canada. This isn't down south. This is Canada. How is this happening? That's the kind of thing that I'd like to see get stricter.

If something like the Patriot Act or a reinstatement of the War Measures Act comes out over this, I may consider renouncing my citizenship. I've come close a few times over the past few years (mostly over environmental issues), but that would make me question whether I could really identify as a Canadian anymore.

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

I agree that more restrictions on our nation because of terrorism would suck. I just can't find a balance between wanting these assholes dead before they make innocent people dead, and our liberties. Its unfortunate.

I may consider renouncing my citizenship. I've come close a few times over the past few years (mostly over environmental issues), but that would make me question whether I could really identify as a Canadian anymore.

I respect you DanieMarie but I think this is kind of a dumb sentiment. The governments of nations don't represent the will of the people 100%, nor do they represent the history/pride/legacy of a nation. Just because you disagree with actions of our current government(s) does not mean in my opinion you should ditch the nation symbolically and literally. hundreds of thousands of people died to make Canada what it is today, a free nation with great equal rights and a pretty friggin good spot compared to MOST of the world, yes there are exceptions and better ran nations (Damn liberal northern European nations ) But Canada is a great nation full of great people even if we turned into a military dictatorship tomorrow. So I don't get dropping the citizenship because of mistakes, born a Canadian, die a Canadian in my opinion.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

I agree that more restrictions on our nation because of terrorism would suck. I just can't find a balance between wanting these assholes dead before they make innocent people dead, and our liberties. Its unfortunate.



I respect you DanieMarie but I think this is kind of a dumb sentiment. The governments of nations don't represent the will of the people 100%, nor do they represent the history/pride/legacy of a nation. Just because you disagree with actions of our current government(s) does not mean in my opinion you should ditch the nation symbolically and literally. hundreds of thousands of people died to make Canada what it is today, a free nation with great equal rights and a pretty friggin good spot compared to MOST of the world, yes there are exceptions and better ran nations (Damn liberal northern European nations ) But Canada is a great nation full of great people even if we turned into a military dictatorship tomorrow. So I don't get dropping the citizenship because of mistakes, born a Canadian, die a Canadian in my opinion.

Yeah, you're right...I'm being ridiculous. I just get very, very emotional about some of the changes I see in Canada lately. I wouldn't actually renounce my citizenship and it was childish of me to say that, but I feel like I've lost my home. Harper's environmental policy has stripped me of the Canada I knew and loved. And every time I hear people talk about getting tough on crime or terrorism, I feel like the country is just a little bit farther away from the place I grew up. It hurts, to be honest. It probably hits me hard because I've been living in my other country for the past 9 years. I don't always agree with policy here, either, but at least I'm living here and feel like I'm part of the process. In Canada, I just see things changing in ways that make me very, very angry, but I'm so far away. It just feels like I've lost my home.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not really afraid of terrorism; I'm afraid of people getting afraid of terrorism and turning the country where I grew up into a place that I don't really recognize anymore.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

This is the Canada I know and love. CBC's coverage of this tragedy has been very good, I think: http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-med...ngs-cable-news (commentary on CBC's coverage, not the actual coverage itself).

[thalassa]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

We still don't know if that's a terror-related incident, a terrorism-inspired incident (as the rundown in Quebec was), or a crazy dude who went on a shooting spree. I do agree that security is clearly too lax at the capital. BUT I still don't think we should be on some kind of orange alert.

Chances are, there's stuff going on behind the scenes that you aren't aware of...and tbh, that you probably don't need to be aware of. Because if you are aware of it, then so are people that *really* shouldn't be aware of it.

If you go coo coo in the capitol building and shoot it up, chances are you are a terrorist. Crazy goes quite well with terrorism. Terrorism is simply politically motivated violence as an act of intimidation. If you are motivated to kill someone that is unarmed without direct provocation or being in imminent danger then there's something wrong in your head, period. The tarring and feathering of tax collectors by colonials in this country was terrorism. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist, and the 1963 Birmingham Church bombing was an act of terror, just as much as 9/11.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist, and the 1963 Birmingham Church bombing was an act of terror, just as much as 9/11.

A lot though is a question of perspective. In the US, you have the American War of Independence. When I was a girl, our history lessons called it the American Revolution. No doubt in our teachers' minds, it wasn't justified.

In the UK, some of the more obvious acts of IRA terrorism (the Guildford Bombing, the Birmingham Bull Ring Bombing) lead to the greatest acts of injustice - innocent men were imprisoned for many years, while the guilty were never caught.

So that's where my own caution comes from.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

I'm aware that Canada probably already takes anti-terror actions....all countries have some sort of secret security service that acts behind the scenes, and had them long before the war on terror. I guess what I mean is that I don't want it to turn into some sort of post-9/11 US environment.

[anunitu]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

With any threat,there comes a decision as to curbing certain freedoms. The question becomes "what are we willing to give up to feel safe?" This is a very controversial topic for many people,some would say "What ever it takes" to keep us safe,while some would say "But don't take my Privacy,or my freedom of expression" It will always be problematic in a country with all the freedoms we enjoy. Remember what happened to the Japanese Americans in WW 2,That was a breach of their freedom because of fear.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

With any threat,there comes a decision as to curbing certain freedoms. The question becomes "what are we willing to give up to feel safe?" This is a very controversial topic for many people,some would say "What ever it takes" to keep us safe,while some would say "But don't take my Privacy,or my freedom of expression" It will always be problematic in a country with all the freedoms we enjoy. Remember what happened to the Japanese Americans in WW 2,That was a breach of their freedom because of fear.

It was even worse in Canada. What the Canadian government did to Japanese Canadians in WWII was one of the worst atrocities ever committed in Canada (by far the worst is how Canada treated the First Nations population).

I don't think 'whatever it takes' is acceptable, because that excuse has been abused far too many times in recent history. I could bring up some pretty extreme examples in my other country (it was the supposed threat of communism that the Nazis used to justify a lot of their early actions), but let's face it....Canada probably isn't going to go that far. So, I think the example of the Japanese Canadians in WWII should suffice. We're certainly capable of taking it too far. Was that justified to protect Canadians from enemy forces? NOPE.

[thalassa]

Re: Scared in our own homes?

A lot though is a question of perspective. In the US, you have the American War of Independence. When I was a girl, our history lessons called it the American Revolution. No doubt in our teachers' minds, it wasn't justified.

In the UK, some of the more obvious acts of IRA terrorism (the Guildford Bombing, the Birmingham Bull Ring Bombing) lead to the greatest acts of injustice - innocent men were imprisoned for many years, while the guilty were never caught.

So that's where my own caution comes from.

I don't disagree. My fourth favorite teacher in high school (after 3 of the biology teachers) taught world history. His second favorite saying was "one man's terrorist is a another man's freedom fighter" (his first favorite saying was "the arc of history bends towards justice, but darn me if it doesn't bend too slowly for my sense of justice"... his third favorite saying was "desparate men favor desparate measures", which he sometimes reprased as "if you ain't got nothin', then you ain't got nothin't to lose", and his fourth favorite saying was "history isn't what happened, its what people say happened, with footnotes"...he called these (and the handful of others he had, The Unofficial Rules of History).

Suffice to say, the idea that the Boston Tea Party=terrorism isn't a POV that I am unfamiliar with.