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    #16
    Re: Milk now bad for you??

    Originally posted by MoonRaven View Post
    Now I can't speak for Germany but in Denmark sunflower seeds are only sold as luxury item and expensive as hell, pumpkin seeds you only get if you buy a whole pumpkin, which is only available in the week up to Halloween. (A holiday the stores try to cram down our throats despite it having no roots in Denmark.)
    Spinach I know, but what in the name of the name of all gods are the rest of them :=S: And fortified products are almost unknown in most part of Europe. Breakfast cereal is the exception to the rule here and a very few others, but otherwise fortifying products is a big no-no here.

    No, getting calcium in another way than milk is difficult in (Nothern) Europe, not really sure about Southern Europe though, particularly if you're a vegan. This is why doctors and other medical staff generally will discourage anyone who wants to go fully vegan before they're 18 yo or so, up here. Getting your nutrients is simply far too difficult. (And if you have allergies, forget about it)
    Yep, exactly. We have a lot of greens and stuff here, but those are almost always seasonal products and only available from late summer into early fall when they get harvested. Frozen spinach and kale (frozen kale is terrible, though) is the exception.

    You know, I'm not sure about other countries, but I'm guessing it's the same there...but over here, a lot of food is still fairly regional and seasonal. We get some things shipped in from Spain in the off-season, but a lot of what people eat are things that grow around here in different seasons. So, in May everyone goes crazy for asparagus, in summer it's all about fruits and tomatoes, and in fall people start eating more pumpkins and cabbages. Things are slowly changing and more and more veggies are coming in from elsewhere, but I don't really see that as a positive thing. Most of what's grown around here grows well given the climate and soil conditions and shipping food in from across the continent (and especially across the world) involves a lot of fuel. Plus, more variety throughout the year tends to make food more expensive, because more of it spoils and those costs have to get recovered. Seasonal produce rotation makes things a lot cheaper.

    EDIT I almost forgot about butter when I was talking about avoiding foods with dairy. You can avoid straight butter (even though margarine tastes like ass) but avoiding it in baked goods is hard. More foods are replacing it with "plant fat" (which is mostly palm oil) or straight up palm oil, but that's another recent development and I don't think it's a positive one. First of all, a lot of palm oil is not sustainable and as of now, there's no certification that says that the palm oil in your food didn't come from a plantation that cut down parts of the rain forest to get there. Second of all, palm doesn't grow anywhere near here, so it has to get shipped across the world to get here (yay carbon!)
    Last edited by DanieMarie; 03 Nov 2014, 06:09.

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      #17
      Re: Milk now bad for you??

      Now see, I was always under the impression that Europe had more food choices & a more varied diet than we did here in the States, since y'all are so snooty about your food :P
      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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        #18
        Re: Milk now bad for you??

        Originally posted by Ophidia View Post
        Now see, I was always under the impression that Europe had more food choices & a more varied diet than we did here in the States, since y'all are so snooty about your food :P
        Well that is true if you take Europe as a whole, because countries tend to stick to their traditional foods/ingredients. So you get Italian food in Italy which is based on very different ingredients than what you get in say Denmark. There's a massive divide between the cuisines of Northern and Southern Europe as well as east and West Europe. I could start lecturing on this, but I'll spare you.
        If you live near a big city you tend to have more stuff available to you, but if you don't you're stuck with whatever the local supermarkets stock which is fairly traditional.
        Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

        An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

        "Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)

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          #19
          Re: Milk now bad for you??

          Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
          More foods are replacing it with "plant fat" (which is mostly palm oil) or straight up palm oil, but that's another recent development and I don't think it's a positive one. First of all, a lot of palm oil is not sustainable and as of now, there's no certification that says that the palm oil in your food didn't come from a plantation that cut down parts of the rain forest to get there. Second of all, palm doesn't grow anywhere near here, so it has to get shipped across the world to get here (yay carbon!)

          Third, most palm plantation workers for palm oil are trafficked. At best, they are underpaid and over worked...but more often, slave labor.
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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            #20
            Re: Milk now bad for you??

            Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
            EDIT I almost forgot about butter when I was talking about avoiding foods with dairy. You can avoid straight butter (even though margarine tastes like ass) but avoiding it in baked goods is hard. More foods are replacing it with "plant fat" (which is mostly palm oil) or straight up palm oil, but that's another recent development and I don't think it's a positive one. First of all, a lot of palm oil is not sustainable and as of now, there's no certification that says that the palm oil in your food didn't come from a plantation that cut down parts of the rain forest to get there. Second of all, palm doesn't grow anywhere near here, so it has to get shipped across the world to get here (yay carbon!)
            This is another subject you shouldn't start me on, because I'll never hut up if I do. Short version, 'what you said'.
            Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

            An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

            "Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)

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              #21
              Re: Milk now bad for you??

              Originally posted by MoonRaven View Post
              Well that is true if you take Europe as a whole, because countries tend to stick to their traditional foods/ingredients. So you get Italian food in Italy which is based on very different ingredients than what you get in say Denmark. There's a massive divide between the cuisines of Northern and Southern Europe as well as east and West Europe. I could start lecturing on this, but I'll spare you.
              If you live near a big city you tend to have more stuff available to you, but if you don't you're stuck with whatever the local supermarkets stock which is fairly traditional.
              Yep, and that's not even to mention the fact that there's variation within countries. Like, few people who don't live on coasts eat fish on a regular basis. They do eat fish, but not like people on coasts eat fish.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by Ophidia View Post
              Now see, I was always under the impression that Europe had more food choices & a more varied diet than we did here in the States, since y'all are so snooty about your food :P
              I don't know if it's necessarily that we have fewer choices and less variety, it's just that we have totally different eating habits and food choices. When I moved here, I could never find anything I wanted to eat because of it. Now I'm totally used to it and feel like I have a ton of choices...they're just not things I would have thought of eating back in Canada. Also, like I said before, people here do tend to eat more seasonally, so choices change throughout the year. There is a whole lot less selection (supermarkets are wayyy tinier here than in any English-speaking country...even the really large ones like Kaufland are about as large as a normal sized Canadian supermarket) but there's also a lot less repetition. Like, you maybe have two tomato sauce choices in a Lidl or Aldi, five to ten in a Rewe or Kaisers, and 10-20 in a Kaufland. In Canada, you have a whole shelf just dedicated to tomato sauce and nothing else and there is every possible combination of tomato sauce you could possibly want. And it's not that people don't eat ready made food, either, because they do. People buy frozen pizza all the time...they just don't care that the supermarket only sells three brands of frozen pizza (Dr. Oetker, Wagner, and store brand, FYI) and that each brand only has a handful of choices.

              On the flip side, whenever I go back to visit Canada, I always have trouble finding things I want to eat in the supermarket. They're HUGE compared to here and there is every kind of everything, but sometimes it's hard to find simple things. Like, cream cheese that's just made of milk and some salt? NOPE. It's got a gajillion other things in it too and at least a couple of those things are things I'm allergic to. There are like 5+ brands with a ton of flavours each, but I can't eat a single one of them. Bread without soy flour in the UK? Nice try! There's an entire shelf dedicated to bread AND a bakery section, but every single one of them contains soy flour.

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                #22
                Re: Milk now bad for you??

                Some people can't digest milk. Others can.

                Often seems to be divided along lines of where their ancestors hailed from.

                I am descended from a long line of folks back in Europe who kept cows, drank milk, made soft cheese etc, and we have no problem drinking it. In fact, we seem to be drawn to it.

                Other lines of ancestry don't have a milk drinking history, and can't digest the stuff, some of them find it down right disgusting.

                The idea that it's weird that people considered drinking milk from another animal doesn't make sense to me. When one sees how fast and large a calf grows (or lamb, or horse, etc etc) I'd say a light would go off in most human heads that the milk is some powerful good food.

                I've been through the "milk is bad for you" media thing at least once before in my life. I also remember when eggs were going to kill us all, when butter was the death knell, and when oat bran was going to save the universe, and cranberry juice was the nectar of the gods.

                When I was young, and before texturized soy protein (oh yeah, soy was once the bomb and has now gone out of favor for many) was readily available, there was this thing called seitan that lots of vegetarians ate and used as a protein source. It was chewy so that was a plus for the people who missed the texture of meat.

                Seitan is wheat gluten. And we KNOW what a poison that is! Apparently in the past 3 years half the human population has developed celiac's disease because around here even milk, bottled water, and candy bars boast about being gluten free.

                Don't get me wrong, I understand the reality of celiac's and am glad there are now many food options readily available, but the average joe on the street is now worried their breakfast toast is out to get them.

                I did the no dairy thing for awhile some years ago and noticed no change in my health or well being. I know people who eliminated dairy and had huge, immediate health benefits.

                We are not all wired the same.

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                  #23
                  Re: Milk now bad for you??

                  Milk or ice cream do not sit well with me, but cheese is fine!
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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Ophidia View Post
                    Now see, I was always under the impression that Europe had more food choices & a more varied diet than we did here in the States, since y'all are so snooty about your food :P
                    Making australia look good too, though we've only started getting really good at it in the last 2 years. Every time I go to Woolworths there is an improvement though. And thankfully I can afford it.

                    Also, isn't b12 in vegemite? Vegans can have vegemite, right?
                    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                    RIP

                    I have never been across the way
                    Seen the desert and the birds
                    You cut your hair short
                    Like a shush to an insult
                    The world had been yelling
                    Since the day you were born
                    Revolting with anger
                    While it smiled like it was cute
                    That everything was shit.

                    - J. Wylder

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                      #25
                      Re: Milk now bad for you??

                      Originally posted by Heka View Post
                      Making australia look good too, though we've only started getting really good at it in the last 2 years. Every time I go to Woolworths there is an improvement though. And thankfully I can afford it.

                      Also, isn't b12 in vegemite? Vegans can have vegemite, right?
                      Although Vegemite & Marmite are vegan, neither has B12. They do have B9 (folate) though.
                      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Ophidia View Post

                        Although Vegemite & Marmite are vegan, neither has B12. They do have B9 (folate) though.
                        ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                        RIP

                        I have never been across the way
                        Seen the desert and the birds
                        You cut your hair short
                        Like a shush to an insult
                        The world had been yelling
                        Since the day you were born
                        Revolting with anger
                        While it smiled like it was cute
                        That everything was shit.

                        - J. Wylder

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                          #27

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                            #28
                            Re: Milk now bad for you??

                            Supprised you have a Woolworths there,have not seen one here in MANY years...
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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                              #29
                              Re: Milk now bad for you??

                              We have it here, too, but they don't sell much food. Just a few packaged snacks.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                                Supprised you have a Woolworths there,have not seen one here in MANY years...
                                Whats Woolworths over there? Here they ate called safeway in eastern states
                                ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                                RIP

                                I have never been across the way
                                Seen the desert and the birds
                                You cut your hair short
                                Like a shush to an insult
                                The world had been yelling
                                Since the day you were born
                                Revolting with anger
                                While it smiled like it was cute
                                That everything was shit.

                                - J. Wylder

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