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    #31
    Re: Hodur

    Originally posted by Thorbjorn View Post
    It seems he was on good terms with them. Grid, a lover of Odin, took a liking to Thor, and he to her. She gave him his belt and gloves, and her staff; he married (or simply had a fling with) Jarnsaxa; Aegir and his wife Ran hosted parties for the Aesir, which Thor attended. There are others I can't remember right now.
    The problem is that Thorr has instigated some incidents without provocation... and even when the jotunn 'started it' they were often goaded into it by Thorr in the first place. Yet he has a great deal of respect and affection for some Jotnar (most of them female, incidentally). So Thorr's attitude to the Jotnar is complicated and seemingly irrational. I'm not sure that any of us can truly understand it. It's definitely not as simple as 'violent' vs 'non-violent' Jotnar, though.

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      #32
      Re: Hodur

      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
      The problem is that Thorr has instigated some incidents without provocation... and even when the jotunn 'started it' they were often goaded into it by Thorr in the first place.
      Maybe because of his rowdy and boisterous nature, and quick temper. Perhaps even a perceived slight might send him into a rage. I can relate, which is probably why I'm drawn to him, seeing a lot of us in each other. I've done my share of spoiling for a fight on occasion. :facepalm:

      Yet he has a great deal of respect and affection for some Jotnar (most of them female, incidentally). So Thorr's attitude to the Jotnar is complicated and seemingly irrational. I'm not sure that any of us can truly understand it. It's definitely not as simple as 'violent' vs 'non-violent' Jotnar, though.
      Agreed, good observations. I wonder how much of what we don't understand is from missing parts of lore. Or maybe people just didn't over-think it and took the stories at face value. I think that's more likely. After all, did the Viking Age farmer really have the time to sit and philosophize?
      śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
      śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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        #33
        Re: Hodur

        Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
        The problem is that Thorr has instigated some incidents without provocation... and even when the jotunn 'started it' they were often goaded into it by Thorr in the first place.
        Would you rather he practiced his craft on the aesir? The giants, at least, set him up against the most competitive wrestling partner, old age.

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          #34
          Re: Hodur

          Originally posted by meinfretr View Post
          Would you rather he practiced his craft on the aesir? The giants, at least, set him up against the most competitive wrestling partner, old age.
          Considering I work with the Jotnar more than I do the Aesir, my answer is that sometimes I think certain of his exploits shouldn't be glorified as much as they are. The jotnar are not an inferior race that exist as an outlet for Thorr's 'craft'. Just because he is infamous for his temper doesn't justify attacking someone unprovoked, or provoking them into a fight so that you can kill them in hot blood rather than cold. I like Thorr in general, but I accept that he has his faults, as do all deities, and I don't always agree with his actions.

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            #35
            Re: Hodur

            Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
            Considering I work with the Jotnar more than I do the Aesir, my answer is that sometimes I think certain of his exploits shouldn't be glorified as much as they are. The jotnar are not an inferior race that exist as an outlet for Thorr's 'craft'. Just because he is infamous for his temper doesn't justify attacking someone unprovoked, or provoking them into a fight so that you can kill them in hot blood rather than cold. I like Thorr in general, but I accept that he has his faults, as do all deities, and I don't always agree with his actions.
            I never mentioned the jotnar as inferior, did I? In fact, if you look closely, I praised them for their craft in turn. I think, overall, the gods would not have dealt with Thor nearly as easily as the giants did. Regardless, everyone has their moments. Thor is as much reflective of that aspect of human nature; in many of the instances you mentioned, he did think he was justified in what he was doing, as we so often feel when we are angry. I do not ignore the sometimes catastrophic lapses in judgment, but I do respect the way it was managed, and the Jotunn certainly respected his strength, if not his intent. I suppose it depends on which side of his loyalty you would fall on, would it not?

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