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    Humanity's limiting factor?

    I got into an interesting debate today on what a Human's limiting factor is, what separates those who achieve from those who fail (in a world whereby anything to an extent is possible).
    I said apathy, someone who is motivated will always achieve highest; one friend said intelligence, where some people are just more naturally gifted (he's not a very cheery person) and another good friend said social status and money tend to limit someone the most.

    I'm just curious as to what you guys think?
    What is the one thing that separates budding lawyers and doctors from say, those in less desirable professions.
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    #2
    Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

    Sometimes it is just dumb luck..Though having the chance for a very good education and backing by family helps. Sometimes family helps,and many times they hinder by just being a certain way. Some have prospered even with very negative backgrounds,some have failed even with what would seem a perfect background with all the perks to help them succeed. So it could be the person themselves,or opportunity going their way. Really hard to say because sometimes the most successful end up hitting a VERY bad place in their lives. success does not always mean happiness.
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      #3
      Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

      I think it depends on desire and motivation to do something. When one really wants to succeed, he will. If one has no interest or motivation - the results will be as high as the effort to do something.
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        #4
        Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

        Originally posted by Amadi View Post
        I got into an interesting debate today on what a Human's limiting factor is, what separates those who achieve from those who fail (in a world whereby anything to an extent is possible).
        I said apathy, someone who is motivated will always achieve highest; one friend said intelligence, where some people are just more naturally gifted (he's not a very cheery person) and another good friend said social status and money tend to limit someone the most.

        I'm just curious as to what you guys think?
        What is the one thing that separates budding lawyers and doctors from say, those in less desirable professions.
        Personally I can't think of a less desirable profession than a lawyer...
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          #5
          Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

          Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
          Personally I can't think of a less desirable profession than a lawyer...
          Honestly, that was my immediate thought as well.

          Why imagine that a person who is not a doctor or lawyer is "in a less desirable job"?

          Despite the fact that it pays crap on a cracker, I like my job, and a lot of people would consider it very undesirable.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

            Motivation and drive are the big ones. Also, being able to deal with failure. It doesn't guarantee success, but it's much more likely to bring you there if you dust yourself off after a setback, rather than giving up.
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              #7
              Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

              Luck, ambition, and a willingness to screw over your fellow man: You need at least two of the three for "success" as our society defines it.

              We don't live in a world where anything is possible. The biggest limiting factor for an individual is an education. Education happens to be connected to socioeconomic factors. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean that some statistical outliers on either end fail or succeed outside of what one could easily predict...but that generally has more to do with the three traits listed above than not.

              But yeah, I only know one lawyer good enough to be friends with.
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                #8
                Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                Not being true to oneself, which requires actually knowing who you are. Success is not money or fame or a "desirable" job, it is the fulfillment of who you are.

                "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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                  #9
                  Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                  It all comes from fear.

                  Think of your own personal experiences, and trace one particularly nasty thing you've done (whatever - keep it private, please; not a confessional) back to the ultimate cause of your act.

                  Odds are, it'll be fear of something or other.
                  Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                    #10
                    Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                    I think apathy as humanity's limiting factor was a good answer; being able to stay motivated and passionate is essential for success, and that's an impossible mindset to maintain if you are apathetic.

                    Although I agree that education can be important to success as well, and money makes it much easier to obtain said education, there's plenty of examples of people starting from a bad economic position that are still able to fight their way to obtaining that education they need, despite the financial obstacles that they face. Here's just one list from a quick Google search:

                    15 Billionaires Who Were Once Dirt Poor

                    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                    Luck, ambition, and a willingness to screw over your fellow man: You need at least two of the three for "success" as our society defines it.
                    I wanted to comment on this. I can see how it can be true, but I think choosing the Luck and Ambition options are much more likely to succeed then choosing the Willingness to Screw Over Your Fellow Man option.

                    Regardless of the two options a person goes with on their path to success, I think Luck is essential in that chances are doors won't just fly open for you; you have to force them open, or, in other words, make your own luck. Luck comes to those with tenacity, who don't give up and are constantly pushing to find opportunities.

                    To have this tenacity to make your own luck, you have to have something fueling it; something that makes you stand back up every time you are knocked down. This ties in with Ambition; ambition or motivation or passion, they're all kind of describing the same thing; the driving force keeping a person from falling to the apathy trap. Therefore, I think Ambition, like Luck, is also essential, no matter what other choices you make, if you want to become successful.

                    Using the Willingness to Screw Over Your Fellow Man option can actually hurt your chances, in my opinion. Building connections and networking is more helpful in the long run and you can't do much of that if you're screwing people over and giving yourself a bad reputation. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but I don't think you have to do it in order to become successful.

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                      #11
                      Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                      I was running off stereotypes when I said lawyer :S, tbf it isn't really an attractive profession for me either, I lost a lot of respect for lawyership as a profession when I realised you need a pretty substantial amount of money prepared to get your foot in the door.

                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                      Despite the fact that it pays crap on a cracker, I like my job, and a lot of people would consider it very undesirable.
                      I like that ^^, I suppose I did phrase the question badly xP, maybe I should've replaced 'success' with 'meeting your aspirations' ;P

                      Originally posted by SleepingCompass View Post
                      . Using the Willingness to Screw Over Your Fellow Man option can actually hurt your chances, in my opinion. Building connections and networking is more helpful in the long run and you can't do much of that if you're screwing people over and giving yourself a bad reputation. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but I don't think you have to do it in order to become successful.
                      I'm with compass on this, I don't really think using people and them dropping them is a good way to go.
                      Work hard Play hard.
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                        #12
                        Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                        Beyond genetics and other factors that cannot be changed: self discipline.

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                          #13
                          Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                          Originally posted by SleepingCompass View Post

                          Using the Willingness to Screw Over Your Fellow Man option can actually hurt your chances, in my opinion. Building connections and networking is more helpful in the long run and you can't do much of that if you're screwing people over and giving yourself a bad reputation. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but I don't think you have to do it in order to become successful.
                          I never said there wasn't a consequence to this choice, if its made poorly...the trick to screwing people over is to make it look like you aren't screwing people over. I'm not talking about some movie stereotype CEO that's willing to burn his bridges in order to get one more good deal (although I'm sure those people exist), I'm talking about the tobacco industruy guys that say "no, there's no evidence that tobacco is bad for you" knowing full well that their internal studies say otherwise or the Thomas Midgley and Charles Ketterings of the world, who knowingly and willingly risked the lives of their workers and the health of the public rather than look objectively at the evidence that their products were an effing mess. I'm not even saying that these people are consciously aware of thier willingness to screw people over...I'm just saying that to be successful, you have to be willing to accept collateral damage.

                          If you look at any successful business persons through out history, you will find that a vast majority of them have screwed a large number of people with less power than them. Exploitation is the name of the game--it is the ultimate consequence of a free market economy. Sometimes those people are your workers, sometimes your competition, sometimes total strangers, and sometimes its the environment (which inevitably screws the people that live there, even if its not evident for a few years or decades). But whether its exploiting workers in third world countries, polluting waterways next to your factory or farm, downplaying safety concerns of your workers, ripping off your employee's pensions, or something else entirely...when profit is the only goal by which success is measured (and in our society, that is still the overwhelming case), screwing people over is inevitable. How much you are willing to ignore that your actions have downstream consequences is a huge contributor to success.
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                            #14
                            Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                            The truth about age. I know it can be a touchy subject sometimes,BUT I am not talking about the difference in age between each of us. I am talking about the difference in age between our past self,are now self,and our future self. What we think and believe right now,may change a LOT for our future self. remember when you were a teenager,and how you perceived the world,and now at perhaps just crossing into 30,how your perception of the world has changed. Try and imagine what your world view will be at my rip old age of almost 70. Sometimes I think we at different ages are actually a different being. Strange thought I know but ,having passed through a lot of the ages,and thinking back...sometimes I think "Who was that person I was at 20?"


                            Getting deep up in here,but put on your waders,and match right in, for the sake of sanity please do not take anything to seriously . its a mind game peoples...
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                            sigpic

                            my new page here,let me know what you think.


                            nothing but the shadow of what was

                            witchvox
                            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                              #15
                              Re: Humanity's limiting factor?

                              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                              I never said there wasn't a consequence to this choice, if its made poorly...the trick to screwing people over is to make it look like you aren't screwing people over. I'm not talking about some movie stereotype CEO that's willing to burn his bridges in order to get one more good deal (although I'm sure those people exist), I'm talking about the tobacco industruy guys that say "no, there's no evidence that tobacco is bad for you" knowing full well that their internal studies say otherwise or the Thomas Midgley and Charles Ketterings of the world, who knowingly and willingly risked the lives of their workers and the health of the public rather than look objectively at the evidence that their products were an effing mess. I'm not even saying that these people are consciously aware of thier willingness to screw people over...I'm just saying that to be successful, you have to be willing to accept collateral damage.

                              If you look at any successful business persons through out history, you will find that a vast majority of them have screwed a large number of people with less power than them. Exploitation is the name of the game--it is the ultimate consequence of a free market economy. Sometimes those people are your workers, sometimes your competition, sometimes total strangers, and sometimes its the environment (which inevitably screws the people that live there, even if its not evident for a few years or decades). But whether its exploiting workers in third world countries, polluting waterways next to your factory or farm, downplaying safety concerns of your workers, ripping off your employee's pensions, or something else entirely...when profit is the only goal by which success is measured (and in our society, that is still the overwhelming case), screwing people over is inevitable. How much you are willing to ignore that your actions have downstream consequences is a huge contributor to success.


                              I see your point now; I was thinking more along the lines of screwing over your fellow success seeking applicants and not so much screwing over the general public at large, but after having read your response, I can also think of a lot of examples of this.... It's rather depressing, but as you pointed out, true.

                              Thank you for explaining

                              I guess I'd rather think of the original question more along the lines of
                              What factor limits a human the most from achieving greatness? rather than success... I think it sounds a little more positive that way, maybe... I mean, when you think of the 'greats' and 'greatness' you don't tend to think of dirty business people as much as when you say the 'successful' people.

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