Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

[habbalah]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

I know from the not so nice pagans.


it has to happen naturally. if you are comparing a Pagan state with Israel. then you could do what most Jews do in the USA. find out where most of the pagans practice is similar to yours and move there. as some Jews do not see jewish names in a phone book they will not move there. because they are nervous of anti-Semitism among other things.
the best option would to purposely move in an area where there are a lot of pagans or pagan shops. offhand I can think of is Salem,Mass. USA but that is more of a tourist attraction. so that would be a big hit or a miss. Manhatten,NY USA used to be a good mecca of occult gatherings. but not as much as it used to be. despite there being a New York Pagan Pride events as well as other events for Halloween. there is a lot of hostility or low respect towards pagans. not to mention the rents are the highest in the USA. there is an Asatru rep. in the northern area of Queens,NY, then of course you got certain areas in upstate NY as a lot of the pagan shop owners in Manhattan moved up there.

now the other problem besides infighting would be attacks from other beliefs. as I saw Evangelists preaching in the middle of Salem during the Halloween events.

Still think it'd be herding cats, but what about New Orleans? It's a pretty magical city with voodoo, hoodoo, and Santeria practitioners already there.

[Medusa]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Still think it'd be herding cats, but what about New Orleans? It's a pretty magical city with voodoo, hoodoo, and Santeria practitioners already there.

Don't forget the crack, the hos and the disentary from the craptastic hurricane that's still needing to be cleaned up. And the oil.

[habbalah]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Don't forget the crack, the hos and the disentary from the craptastic hurricane that's still needing to be cleaned up. And the oil.

Those are just flavor sprinklings!

[Shahaku]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Still think it'd be herding cats, but what about New Orleans? It's a pretty magical city with voodoo, hoodoo, and Santeria practitioners already there.

New Orleans may work, but I don't think there's enough people willing to move there. Afraid there will be a repeat of Hurricane Katrina.

the best option would to purposely move in an area where there are a lot of pagans or pagan shops. offhand I can think of is Salem,Mass. USA but that is more of a tourist attraction.

As said above, Salem apparently has quite a large and serious pagan community. You just have to stick around past the tourist season (aka Halloween) and get to know some people in order to see it.

[lightdragon]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Don't forget the crack, the hos and the disentary from the craptastic hurricane that's still needing to be cleaned up. And the oil.

outside of the hurricane seems like Manhattan or any large city in general.

New Orleans may work, but I don't think there's enough people willing to move there. Afraid there will be a repeat of Hurricane Katrina.

threat of a possible hurricane will make some thinking twice in establishing a home let alone scared space.

As said above, Salem apparently has quite a large and serious pagan community. You just have to stick around past the tourist season (aka Halloween) and get to know some people in order to see it.

cool. it looks like Salem is the Pagan version of Israel then,

[Medusa]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

What about Utah? Lots of open space. I mean people are already doing multiple wives. Why not multiple gods?


i keed i keed

[Louisvillian]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

snip question

Too many issues. For one, I'm personally rather sketchy on states with an official religion. I'm very supportive of secularism when it comes to government. And I think that, considering the backgrounds of most American pagans, and the history of the community in the US, most Pagans are rather fond of secular states.
For two, the Neopagan community is a very broad and fractured one. Finding a common religious and spiritual ground to even establish a "state paganism" is virtually impossible with the modern Pagan community. Even the "generic" eclectic neopaganism, influenced and informed heavily by Wicca, is not universal and is increasingly under criticism for its presumed universality and "defaultness".
Third, and this is a big one, the modern Pagan community isn't a single ethnic religion like Judaism. Judaism can be tied to a nation-state like Israel because the Jews are an ethnic group as well as a religion. The aforementioned breadth and variability factors into this. While certain Pagan religions are ethnic reconstructionist or revivalist religions, that is not all of Contemporary Paganism, and the Pagan community is not a unified ethnicity.

I'm much more amenable to Pagans forming intentional communities within an existing state or government.

[Medusa]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Out of curiosity, what kind of rules do you think a pagan community would have?

[sirz345]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Honestly, I think it'd be like herding cats. Paganism is a huge umbrella term for a lot of people who have very, very different beliefs, and not everyone would be okay with live and let live.

That's kind of my opinion on it, glad to have found someone who thinks similarly. Was just curious to see what you all thought as well.

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I think you can see the future of your idea right there. No bueno

Given what has happened in religious states I am fully aware any similar state is doomed to fail or use faith as a weapon, not condoning it, just asking.

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Free homesteads for pagans!

5 acres and a mule, in

Sunny Death Valley!

To be fair, that was kind of the argument for why Englishmen in the colonial era should colonize the east coast of North America, lots of land but pretty inhospitable during the era.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Oh. Hell. No.

[Torey]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Out of curiosity, and hear me out, do any of you think it would be nice to have a state, say in a piece of land no one else would really want like Finmark for example to make a state that is officially a pagan state where pagans of multiple denominations could be able to rule themselves as they see fit? I'm not saying send all pagans there, as a Shinto I know I always have Japan as a place to visit my shrines and such but for other pagans it isn't that easy so I'm just wondering if any of you have ever thought a religious state like the Holy See or Israel is something you've ever though about?


This is not meant to cause a debate on Israel or religious states, it is just a question that my curiosity wishes to know more about.

I personally don't think that it would be nice for ME.

I must say that some of the nastiest people I've ever known were "Pagans". Although it certainly doesn't mean that all Pagans are this way, I just have objections to religious states in general. If we're talking about a private block of land like a commune, then sure - that's fine for those people who wish to partake. But if this is meant to be akin to Israel - then we would be talking about a self-governing country, so to speak. A mixture of religion and politics - I don' t like the implications.

It often seems to me that a great many Pagans tend to believe that, because there is a perception of Pagans as gentle, earth-loving and open-minded people by default, that large gatherings of various Pagan practitioners from a plethora of paths will be somehow wholly peaceful and without conflict.

[satanic witch]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Pagan is an umbrella term for so many faiths and some dont get along that well. It probably wouldnt end well

[Serria]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

If, theoretically, we could round up all the Pagans that are like the ones on the forum and started an independent state that way, then I think socially, we would be fine. I just wonder about the government. I know that not everyone would agree on politics.

[Medusa]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Imagine you do this. And set up different 'states' for different beliefs. Now look to your left. Those are your Satanic friends. Yup.


*and they won't turn down the Manson!

[satanic witch]

Re: Establishment of a Pagan state akin to Israel for Judaism

Imagine you do this. And set up different 'states' for different beliefs. Now look to your left. Those are your Satanic friends. Yup.


*and they won't turn down the Manson!

Lol that might work. And off topic manson is coming out with new album