Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

[Guest]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

It's by no means certain that all religious belief emerged in savage barbaric times. Our ancient ancestors (7000 years and more ago) were often a damned site more civilised that we would like to think.

I'm saying civilization is not relative to what we term savagery one can still be civilized example The Roman empire, Ancient Mesopotamia, Chinese dynasties etc. and commit attrocities massacres mass rapes pillaging etc. My point is that the concept of civilization is relative to where the person viewing the other civilization comes from violence was a norm in those civilized societies it isn't in ours. However I was saying that the majority of religions formed in violent times which was considered normal I mean there was an intense focus of war gods and most gods had a feature of war added to their main focus. Also violence in rituals through sacrificing humans and or animals occured. Even in the alter medieval times violence to ones self was considered a ritual my certain groups of monks who whipped themselves the Oppus Dei and later during plagues especially the black death many people led self flagellation ceremonies where people would all whip themselves and even mock crucifixion by tying themselves onto a cross.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

I'm saying civilization is not relative to what we term savagery one can still be civilized example The Roman empire, Ancient Mesopotamia, Chinese dynasties etc. and commit attrocities massacres mass rapes pillaging etc. My point is that the concept of civilization is relative to where the person viewing the other civilization comes from violence was a norm in those civilized societies it isn't in ours. However I was saying that the majority of religions formed in violent times which was considered normal I mean there was an intense focus of war gods and most gods had a feature of war added to their main focus. Also violence in rituals through sacrificing humans and or animals occured. Even in the alter medieval times violence to ones self was considered a ritual my certain groups of monks who whipped themselves the Oppus Dei and later during plagues especially the black death many people led self flagellation ceremonies where people would all whip themselves and even mock crucifixion by tying themselves onto a cross.

I don't think modern 'civilisation' is really all that civilised in the west. We still have violent crime on a massive scale, we see nothing wrong in executing people and condemning them to long lingering deaths simply because it's been so difficult to get hold of the 'right' chemicals; the west uses drones to bomb its targets, goes to war or sends in troops just about here there and everywhere. We allow butchery of animals without stunning them first, and people still - at Easter - go and nail themselves to crosses. Not so different really.

But I do agree that the concept of civilisation is relative to where the person viewing the other civilisation comes from - but remember that this can always be manipulated. As regards that, I think Tacitus put it rather well in his book Agricola:

For, to accustom to rest and repose through the charms of luxury a population scattered and barbarous and therefore inclined to war, Agricola gave private encouragement and public aid to the building of temples, courts of justice and dwelling-houses, praising the energetic, and reproving the indolent. Thus an honourable rivalry took the place of compulsion. He likewise provided a liberal education for the sons of the chiefs, and showed such a preference for the natural powers of the Britons over the industry of the Gauls that they who lately disdained the tongue of Rome now coveted its eloquence. Hence, too, a liking sprang up for our style of dress, and the "toga" became fashionable. Step by step they were led to things which dispose to vice, the lounge, the bath, the elegant banquet. All this in their ignorance, they called civilization, when it was but a part of their servitude.

[Medusa]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Wait. Was there ever a peaceful time?

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Wait. Was there ever a peaceful time?

Nope. Only a mythical past golden age. We all have them. Some never recover...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

I'm civilized.

I do wear pants in public.

[Willow]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Pants are overrated. Go with a skirt (or kilt). ^^

I basically understand humans to always be.. you know.. human. Always have been, always will be. We have the same kinds of emotions, the same types of reactions to similar situations, and what changes is our understanding of the world around us and how to better manipulate it, and thus our technology and methods for achieving the same ends evolve.

It doesn't mean we're morally better or worse than those who came before us. Although recently I've been thinking a lot about how much mass communication (the interwebs) has really affected my life as I've grown up with it.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Pants are overrated. Go with a skirt (or kilt). ^^

Kilts are for Scots. Nobody ever accuses them of being civilized.

[Rick]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Kilts are for Scots. Nobody ever accuses them of being civilized.

Och aye!!!

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Kilts are for Scots. Nobody ever accuses them of being civilized.

The Irish also wore kilts at times. Though the two seem to be closer related than many think from the genealogy i've done.

[Jembru]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

The Irish also wore kilts at times. Though the two seem to be closer related than many think from the genealogy i've done.

Indeed! According to QI, the Irish actually invented the kilt, never mind wore them! The short version that we think of as a kilt today, was apparently an English invention.

They also said that the idea of tartan denoting ones clan is a fairly recent creation. I was a little disappointed to hear that, saying as my family has a tartan.

(Sorry to continue this shameless derailing. As you were...)

[Guest]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

The Celts actually inttroduced trousers or "pants" to the Romans.

[thalassa]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

The Irish also wore kilts at times. Though the two seem to be closer related than many think from the genealogy i've done.

My maternal grandfathers family came here directly from Ireland in the 1800s, they'd lived there for generations...but before that, the family originated in Scotland.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Indeed! According to QI, the Irish actually invented the kilt, never mind wore them! The short version that we think of as a kilt today, was apparently an English invention.

They also said that the idea of tartan denoting ones clan is a fairly recent creation. I was a little disappointed to hear that, saying as my family has a tartan.

(Sorry to continue this shameless derailing. As you were...)

I was always told the clan kilt pin predated the actual tartan colors. Granted over time it has become more elaborate and refined and perhaps might have originally been more of a clan totem upon a pole type thing vice something worn upon the clothes. Since most of my Scottish and Irish ancestry is through the women I am not entitled by name to wear any of their tartan colors so would be stuck with the Jacobite Tartan colors or the US Navy Edzell Tartan as I was stationed there for a few years.

The video you linked to in blocked for the US when I tried to pull it up.

[Jembru]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

I was always told the clan kilt pin predated the actual tartan colors. Granted over time it has become more elaborate and refined and perhaps might have originally been more of a clan totem upon a pole type thing vice something worn upon the clothes. Since most of my Scottish and Irish ancestry is through the women I am not entitled by name to wear any of their tartan colors so would be stuck with the Jacobite Tartan colors or the US Navy Edzell Tartan as I was stationed there for a few years.

The video you linked to in blocked for the US when I tried to pull it up.

Hmmm.. maybe some of our QI fans in the US could point us to a more US friendly place to view episodes.. the episode is called 'highs and Lows', if you can find it.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Ignorance using the faces of our Gods

Hmmm.. maybe some of our QI fans in the US could point us to a more US friendly place to view episodes.. the episode is called 'highs and Lows', if you can find it.

Completely off topic but what is QI?

- - - Updated - - -

So today, I removed myself from a group entitled "Odins Law" on social media. Why? Because I learned what their true face is. They pride themselves in being a skinhead club of self proclaimed Odinists. Now, I've said before that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, but this made me so angry. Those who use our gods as a justification for hatred and racism... It dilutes the public opinion of who we really are. It poisons our intentions, and corrupts it to the hilt. I, and many of my kin, try extremely hard to abolish these delusions, and here is a group of arrogant filth scourging the name of heathens everywhere.
What are your thoughts on these enemies of our good name? Have you ever encountered any type of people who uses our gods in such a way? If I ever meet one in person, there will be a major altercation, and I may end up in jail.
Thoughts?

I think many times people cling so tightly to the notion of not hindering other's beliefs that they knowingly and willingly turn a blind eye. I was reminded on another forum that it didn't matter the factual or actual truth and how it was corrupted to support a claim. It only mattered that the person believed it and there for we (I specifically) was not allowed to challenge or correct that perspective though historical, archaeological and even mythological evidence clearly showed the conclusion to be wrong.

I see that more and more now. It's a greater evil and infringement upon a person to try and show where something is wrong than to allow them to believe and act upon that belief and the damage is causes.