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    #91
    Re: Guns

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
    It's about time. The man has done enough to expand my ability to carry a gun, it's about time he did something that makes some sense. As a responsible gun owner I applaud the opportunity to be responsible. IMO anyone that doesn't support background checks isn't someone that should have a gun in the first place.

    And the Constitutional line is such BS....we restrict Constitutional rights all the time---you can't yell fire in a crowded room or bomb in an airport and say "oh, I'm just exercising my 1st amendment right" as a get out of jail card. And come on, anyone that supports voter ID laws and doesn't support universal background checks is a hypocrite--let's ID people over imaginary fraud for something that barely matters on an individual but pitch a toddler hissy fit over making sure one isn't a felon before legally selling them something that can be used to kill people in large numbers?!? The mental gymnastics that takes is frightening.

    Let's face it, last week an 11 shot an 8 year old little girl because she wouldn't let him see her puppy. Last year, a toddler blew his face away. A kid kills a sibling thinking a gun is unloaded. Kids walk into schools with their parents guns and shoot them up. There is a problem with our love of guns in this country. I'm willing to bet most of those parents would have said they were law abiding, contentious fire arm owners before the day their babies became killers (and research supports this).

    And while universal background checks and safe storage laws won't eliminate the problem, if it can even put a dent in it, I'm patriotic enough to give it a go. At least it's not sticking my head in the sand while the NRA pulls the strings to hundreds of lawmakers.
    Bravo. This makes so much sense.

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      #92
      Re: Guns

      IMHO - the problem isn't with the "love of guns" it's with the fear mongering that equates sensible gun laws with total disarmament, and those organizations that urge people into stupidity.

      People in this country seem to be enamored to B&W thinking and being used by various groups through that unhealthy love. The actual solution to real problems is to think things through like an adult with a capable brain rather than letting others do your thinking for you.

      Yeah, it's work.

      Do it anyway.
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #93
        Re: Guns

        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
        IMHO - the problem isn't with the "love of guns" it's with the fear mongering that equates sensible gun laws with total disarmament, and those organizations that urge people into stupidity.

        People in this country seem to be enamored to B&W thinking and being used by various groups through that unhealthy love. The actual solution to real problems is to think things through like an adult with a capable brain rather than letting others do your thinking for you.

        Yeah, it's work.

        Do it anyway.
        The problem is that our love of guns has (collectively, as represented by the squeaky wheel faction which is far louder than the silent and rational faction*) has become the unhealthy obsession of an abusive partner.




        *"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" (oh, such irony considering the source of the quote)--what the silent and rational majority thinks doesn't matter when all they do is sit on their hands or cower in the corner.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

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          #94
          Re: Guns

          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          The problem is that our love of guns has (collectively, as represented by the squeaky wheel faction which is far louder than the silent and rational faction*) has become the unhealthy obsession of an abusive partner.
          The same thing seems to happen on every single issue of any importance, and of no importance at all, so I'm just being general

          But you are right. That squeaky wheel always gets greased, while ignoring the quietly bad bearing causes the wheel to fall off on the highway.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #95
            Re: Guns

            The other day, a guy from out of town walked into a church here and threatened to shoot the pastor and the people who were there. The pastor and some of the folks were carrying, so the guy re-thought pretty quick, no one got shot, and he was apprehended. It could have gone 100 ways, I guess, but in any event he wasn't walking out of there on his own.
            sigpic
            Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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              #96
              Re: Guns

              The problem is there is no middle ground for the gun lobby. Any gun legislation is seen as some massive gun grab. The fact is no one is coming for anyone's guns. Law abiding citizens aren't going to have federal agents knocking at their doors asking for them to turn in their guns.

              Gun control legislation such as background checks work to prevent guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have ghem. This is common sense. There is no common sense in today's political climate though. There is no middle ground. The extreme fear and propaganda has made real conversation and action almost impossible.

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                #97
                Re: Guns

                Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
                The other day, a guy from out of town walked into a church here and threatened to shoot the pastor and the people who were there. The pastor and some of the folks were carrying, so the guy re-thought pretty quick, no one got shot, and he was apprehended. It could have gone 100 ways, I guess, but in any event he wasn't walking out of there on his own.
                They were all lucky.

                Sure, people use guns to defensively in this manner plenty:

                he NRA points to phone surveys from the 1990s that suggest Americans might use their guns defensively millions of times every year, though even the most charitable efforts to actually document such incidents come up with fewer than 2,000difficult to documenthttp://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...un-laws-213222
                But this dude got robbed with his own gun. As did this one. Or the nine ordinary people injured by police apprenenting one gunman (who only fired at the guy he wanted to kill). This guy got shot by the "bad guy" who then went on to take everyone hostage.

                The reality of the "good guy with a gun" myth is that most "good guys" aren't trained to overcome biology and even then, sometimes they still get it wrong (but when they get it right, its generally because they have training--like this security guard or this former marine). When it comes to gun myths, its about as good as the "its not fair to law abiding citizens because criminals will still have guns" myth.


                My personal favorite comes from a study on defensive gun use:

                Killer toddlers seems like it would be so easy to prevent...and yet we have this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...ear/?tid=sm_fb
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                sigpic

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                  #98
                  Re: Guns

                  Why is there a multi-page debate in a hobby thread? Nevermind, I don't care. It's a dead horse of a debate. Find another topic. I'm entirely too sick to be interested in splitting this into two different issues or encouraging the continuance of a debate we see twice a year and thrice on leap year.

                  Closed.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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