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    #16
    Re: Guns

    I like gins. They go BANG! and put holes in paper a long way away.
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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      #17
      Re: Guns

      For outside of The United States, what are your governments laws like with permits, open carry, and differing types of rifles?

      I'm a citizen of two countries, so here's the lowdown on both:

      Germany:

      You have to have a permit to own any gun, and to get a permit, you must demonstrate a need for it, such as needing it for your job, hunting, sport shooting, etc. If you do not have a job that requires a gun (which are pretty much limited to some kinds of security officers or maybe farmers), you must join a hunting association to demonstrate that you are actually interested in hunting or join a sport shooting club to show that you actually engage in the sport. There may be a couple of other situations where you can demonstrate that you need a gun, but those are the big ones. Also, you have to show that you know how to use the gun. I'm not sure how this works, but if it's anything like everything else in this country (sailing, fishing, etc), you have to take a course and pass a test.

      In addition to the ownership permit, you must have a carry permit to take the gun off of your own property. If you do not have one, you can only use your gun on your own land.

      When you transport your gun between your home and where you plan on hunting, you must keep it unloaded. There is an exception here for people who need to keep guns for their jobs.

      The kinds and number of guns you can have are pretty restricted, but it depends on the kind of license you have. Some people are allowed to have more kinds of weapons than others. Usually, you can only have hunting rifles. You can also have handguns if you use them for sport shooting, though I think you're pretty limited as to what you can do with those guns (I think you have to keep them at the shooting range). Hunters are allowed to have semi-automatic rifles and they can have as many of them if they want.

      You have to keep your guns in a gun locker when you're not using them. You also have to buy insurance for your guns.

      Canada:

      Not too different from Germany. You need an ownership and carry permit, you cannot transport loaded weapons, and the kinds of guns you can buy are restricted. The big difference is that you don't really need to demonstrate a need for your guns. You can just buy them, as long as you pass the background check (you can't own one if you have a history of mental illness or a criminal record, which is true for Germany as well).


      I don't own a gun and don't really feel the need to, but if I ever move to the country, I might buy a hunting rifle. I don't feel like I need one for protection at all. I'd just have one if I went hunting and wanted to do it often enough to justify the expense of taking the gun license course, paying the hunting association fees (and I'm willing to bet there's a course that goes with that as well), and paying for all of the licenses and insurances. I'll probably start with fishing, though. You need to take a course for that as well, but it's a much faster process and the permits are a lot cheaper.

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        #18
        Re: Guns

        I don't own a gun for personal reasons, but I'm not anti-gun. I think some guns are really not appropriate for a private citizen to own (there's no reason a civilian should have, say, a rocket launcher), but I'm for private gun ownership. However, I do think there should be strict background checking and waiting periods.
        Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

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          #19
          Re: Guns

          Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
          Oh the British Government are an oppressive lot. It's just that in the US everyone seems to be able to have a firearm while over here it's mostly the criminals who have them!
          Question: Are criminals really the people that you want to be in control of your country's firearms?
          "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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            #20
            Re: Guns

            Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
            Question: Are criminals really the people that you want to be in control of your country's firearms?
            Criminals will always have weapons.
            We have armed response units for the police over here.
            And interestingly, the police tend to be very against becoming armed. Firstly because a good copper isn't necessarily a crack shot, and vice versa. Secondly because they worry about ricochets... innocent civilians getting hit when bullets bounce (and let's face it, we don't have as much space here in the UK as you do in Texas )
            Thirdly - I kid you not - they worry about their guns being nicked.
            Finally - and this is the one I think they really fear, a LOT of criminals commit crimes unarmed in the UK. They do this because they know the average british bobby is not going to be able to shoot them. Once the police are armed, then the criminals will be too.
            It's a bit like unilateral disarmament. Nuclear weapons would ensure world peace, we were promised.
            No. They didn't. They might have stopped nuclear war, but then so would getting rid of nuclear weapons.
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              #21
              Re: Guns

              Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
              Question: Are criminals really the people that you want to be in control of your country's firearms?
              LOL - I don't want anybody to have something I can't have.
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                #22
                Re: Guns

                As long as I can have a gun or guns to hunt I don't mind hoops or restrictions.

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                  #23
                  Re: Guns

                  As has been said by others, I don't own a firearm of any kind, I don't see myself coming into possession of a firearm any time soon, but I am not against them in any way. The private ownership of a gun by a member of the general public is perfectly fine, as long as you throw some bit of common sense into it. I get it, a gun can be a multi-purpose tool. Defense, hunting, enjoyment, and as a weapon of war. Those designed for the first three of those are alright in my books to be possessed by your every day joe. Pistols, some rifles, shotguns. Go for it. But there is NO reason for a private citizen to own an assault rifle, rocket launcher, uzi, AK-47, etc. Those items are solely designed for the primary purpose to cause death. Okay, I'm not against killing folks or violence. I'm not going to go around and say that every life is sacred, every life has worth, and that all issues can be settled peacefully. There will always be individuals that simply need a bullet between the eyes, and times where aggression is needed to address the problem.

                  As for the 2nd Amendment, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", you've got to really think about it and the time in which it was written. There were no standing armies, no specifically designated police forces, and so the defense of self and land and country fell upon the common man and his or her ability to take up arms and fight as needed. Such is no longer the case now. Our taxes and our government provide those services through the usage of specially trained and authorized individuals, thus removing the need for such defenses to be taken up by the general public. Times and situations change.

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                    #24
                    Re: Guns

                    We, humans, have the same right to protect ourselves and those we care about as any animal on earth. Some places, like England, have made defending yourself a crime. If a crook breaks into your home you are supposed to just walk away and let them take whatever they want. You can go next door or to the next farm house and call the police. Then they come out and take a report and then in a few days it happens again.

                    when the US was formed it was understood that the right of self defense was a birthright and it was added to the constitution to remind the government that our right to defend ourselves was to be protected even though it extended to protection against a tyrannical government.

                    This is why it is still legal for a citizen to have a machine gun or, yes, even a "rocket launcher" or anti-tank weapon. At the founding it was assumed that each able bodied man would have the same weapons as the current infantry soldier because the citizen soldier or militia could be called to defend the town, county, state or country with only a moments notice. That citizen soldier was expected to supply his own gun and ammunition that was compatible with what the army was using.

                    Neither the government nor the constitution gives us the right to have and carry a gun. That right of self defense comes with being born. If you wanted to stop lions from killing antelope would you cut the horns from its head and place cushioned shoes on its feet? Would you bind a rabbits feet so it couldn't run to keep the coyote and hawk from attacking?
                    Why is it that in the USA mass killing is always done where it is illegal to have a gun? Why was a man in Japan able to kill 21 people with a knife? Why is the violent crime rate rising faster in England than it is in the USA? (it is actually dropping in the USA)
                    Why has every dictator first required gun registration and then confiscated guns before killing millions of their own citizens?
                    You see, the ownership of guns in the USA is not because we have the right to hunt (although we do have that right). It is not because we have the right to participate in the shooting sports, although we do. It is because we have the right to defend ourselves, those we love, the state and the country from all enemies foreign or domestic. we also have the right to abolish our own government if it becomes abusive or a danger to the constitution.
                    I own guns. I shoot in two competitions currently. I haven't hunted in a few years but that will change. I took an oath to preserve and protect the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. I have never been released from that oath. I am pagan and I take my oath to God (by whatever name is used) very seriously. I will not yield my ability to uphold my oath so long as I live.

                    You do not have to own a gun. It is a right and not a requirement. The police will do their best to be there when you call, if you are able to call. They will make a report and do their best to arrest the guy that killed you. They will try to bring him to trial and the court along with the jury will hear the facts presented and then decide his guilt or innocence. sometimes they make the wrong decision, sometimes there isn't enough evidence, but sometimes they are convicted and serve their 15 to 30 years for killing you. Most often they get out and kill someone else. Maybe they will make a mistake and try to kill me. There will likely be no need for a trial because I train for "combat" and "defense" shooting. I carry a gun all the time. People have asked me what I am afraid of; I reply, "that I might have to use my gun to save a life". It is not something I want to happen and not something I look forward to but it is something I am prepared to do if I must to save the lives of others.

                    In the USA over 1.5 million times a year a citizen prevents or stops a crime with the use of a gun (Surgeon generals study on gun violence in the USA at the request of Barack Obama). Most often just the fact that the victim has a gun stops the crime. Rarely is the gun fired but when it is it becomes part of the statistics for gun violence. Self defense is not a crime in the USA, not yet. If you take the guns out of the hands of the citizens you add that 1.5 to 3 million people to the statistics of gun victims. I am all for gun confiscation - so long as all the guns are removed from the criminals first and the government second. After that they can come and get my guns.

                    The army, the police are not duty bound to protect individuals - even the supreme court agrees with that. If the police are not required (it would be impossible) to protect each individual then whose responsibility is it? It is the individuals responsibility to protect himself. To protect yourself from an armed criminal you have to be armed.
                    The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                    I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                      #25
                      Re: Guns

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post

                      OMG< I don't know where I was (maybe at work) that I couldn't watch this when it was first posted...but I just about died laughing.
                      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                        #26
                        Re: Guns

                        I am really gonna miss Key and Peele cause this was their last season...
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                          #27
                          Re: Guns

                          Since it doesn't sound like they were members I will assume you are talking about a TV show? I don't own a TV. I found I have a lot more time without it.
                          The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                          I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                            #28
                            Re: Guns

                            Since I don't believe in "rights", I obviously don't believe in the right to bear arms.

                            Here in England, the inspectorate that monitors police forces has just proposed that anyone applying to the police for a gun licence should be required to produce a psychological report from their doctor. That sounds like a good idea to me.

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                              #29
                              Re: Guns

                              Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                              Since I don't believe in "rights", I obviously don't believe in the right to bear arms.

                              Here in England, the inspectorate that monitors police forces has just proposed that anyone applying to the police for a gun licence should be required to produce a psychological report from their doctor. That sounds like a good idea to me.
                              If we did that here I'm pretty sure a big chunk of our police would be banned from carrying guns.
                              Satan is my spirit animal

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                                #30
                                Re: Guns

                                Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                                If we did that here I'm pretty sure a big chunk of our police would be banned from carrying guns.
                                Given the way some police behave, that might not be such a bad idea...

                                Still, maybe all we have to do is ban clocks (sorry, couldn't resist that one!)
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                                Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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