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    Spiritual Warfare?

    I'd like to share a short story as it has been on my mind lately

    Many (who are in America now) probably have heard of the school shooting in New England.

    It disturbes me to think that an autistic kid could be capable of such violence. As someone who has been in the mental health circus I feel bad for the shooter because he is a victim as well.

    (I dont know any of your political leanings but I am a conspiracy theorist not a dem/rep/other) And what disturbs me more is Obama's all to horrible acting and his fake crocodile tears about the whole incident.

    I personally doubt this was a false flag attempt, but the extreme left will no doubt call for gun bans and whatnot.

    But that is not the point (sorry for getting political :sick

    My mother is hugely into spiritual warfare (abet not in a crazy overzellos sense) and allot of it makes sense to me.

    Do you as pagans think there is a kind of a good force or an evil force?

    I've been wrestleing with this information and how it fits into my worldview as pagans dont beleive in the devil and by extention that there could be an actual quoute "Spiritual War" at all.

    I believe in the devil. Yet I veiw him just as I veiw Yawey/God: as just another pantheon abet the Abrametic pantheon.
    Some of you (If you are honest) believe in demons maybe the devil is just a demon king or like a Sauron/voldomort like super evil guy.

    I cant help but feel *something* in my bones that evil may be a palpable entity with intelligence. I feel that the world is getting darker, and that spiritual forces are behind the veil so to speak....

    It maybe just a feeling....

    I'm not sure. what is your opinion on this

    #2
    Re: Spiritual Warfare?

    When tragedy hits we want to make sense of it all. We want to believe that this isn't the work of someone human. But that's the truth of it: this was the work of a human. He may have mental illness or some other issue of sorts, but that's all there was to it.

    As I understand it, spiritual warfare isn't what the New Apostolic Reformation makes it out to be. It's about one's personal struggle. I guess if one wanted to argue about spiritual warfare in this mess it's about how one reconciles horrible deeds and religion.
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      #3
      Re: Spiritual Warfare?

      I think everybody feels the world they currently live in is getting darker because we just haven't experienced what it was like before. I agree we're reaching peak of tensions for our time, this definitely isn't the Golden Age. These terrible things happen every single day, sadly, it's just what the media decides to freak out about. I was particularly sympathetic to this incident today though, which is out of character for me. (I felt a great attachment and pain to it for some reason, perhaps the fact they were children) No attack is more justified than others, but this was very different than the usual high school student shooting fellow students.

      It's so unimaginable that I almost too want to say it had to be some sort of evil. Today in China a man stabbed 22 children outside of school, which is something most people didn't hear about.

      So I won't denounce what you have to say. It seems like some really bad vibes have been happening. It could be coincidence, people getting overly paranoid of 2012 or really some dark energy has been doing bad things lately. While these killings were announced I had many people close to me become ill as well all at once and unrelated. So you could be onto something. We all should send lots of positive energy to the earth!

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        #4
        Re: Spiritual Warfare?

        I believe Hanlon's Razor:

        Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
        Funny, when people are allowed to simply stew in mental illness and domestic violence, stupid things result - like shootings. This is a natural result of our unwillingness to meet the needs of our fellow citizens. Nothing more, nothing less.

        Obama? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrjWALYlH0A
        "A true initiation never ends"-Robert Anton Wilson
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        "Reality has become a commodity"-Stephen Colbert 1/29/07
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        "Sometimes, when you can't breathe, there are people there to breathe for you" - Aesop Rock
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          #5
          Re: Spiritual Warfare?

          Originally posted by Avarin View Post
          Do you as pagans think there is a kind of a good force or an evil force?
          No. Good and evil are human creations, human terms. Nature and the gods do not follow such narrow, boxed-in things. They are outside of it. I don't know if I would say "above" it, but...significantly different enough that human morality and right-and-wrong do not apply.

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            #6
            Re: Spiritual Warfare?

            It has always seemed to me that the "Devil" is a convenient way to excuse human behavior,remember Flip Wilson's famous line "The devil made me do it" If one wants to not take responsibility for ones action,then you can always blame the evil on an outside force. Many religions give us an out if we desire,Confession of sin,and the slate is wiped clean at least in the eyes of the person and their church. Humans do bad things all by themselves and need no outside demon to set them on this course.

            Good and evil reside inside all of us,and it is a matter of our personal will and strength as to what we can/would do when under stress.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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              #7
              Re: Spiritual Warfare?

              I do believe there are negative and positive energies that affect our lives, but for the most part, I believe the human condition is that of being variable. It is imperfect. Once we become human, many people lose sight of what is important because our emotions can take control of us. It's within our very existence.

              That said, this school shooting was awful. Just plain awful. It shook me up quite a bit today, and my whole workplace was solemn as we began to hear about the tragedy. I nearly cried myself watching the news in our break room, and a few of my coworkers were blatantly crying, so I wouldn't put it past the president to cry to these events either. We may place the blame of these tragedies on many different things to try and rationalize what happened, but sometimes, what happens doesn't make sense. And that's what makes the natural world the way it is.

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                #8
                Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                Originally posted by toxicyarnglare View Post
                I nearly cried myself watching the news in our break room, and a few of my coworkers were blatantly crying, so I wouldn't put it past the president to cry to these events either.
                I don't know a single parent that managed to think about this with any seriousness today without crying.
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                  #9
                  Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                  Originally posted by Avarin View Post

                  (I dont know any of your political leanings but I am a conspiracy theorist not a dem/rep/other) And what disturbs me more is Obama's all to horrible acting and his fake crocodile tears about the whole incident.
                  Oh hell no. No one has called you out on your nonsense? Well let me help you out with that. Obama is a PARENT of two children. Who are probably higher up on the danger level then most of the average kids. To think that he doesn't feel for those families or those children? What nonsense.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #10
                    Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                    I don't believe in spiritual warfare. I don't believe good/evil are entities.

                    Duality is one of the languages of the human mind that helps us organize information. As mortal and finite, it is a survival mechanism, but I do not think it mirrors Ultimate Reality...but then this event IS human, so to apply good/evil is appropriate. Those are concepts that allow us to process it and react and integrate it.

                    As humans, our day to day challenges are more important than Ultimate Reality. The warfare is in our own minds and hearts, but it is real enough. It matters. BUT, in my manner of thinking...just like other metaphors we use to order things in our head it is still useful to remember that these things ARE metaphors.

                    I think much foolishness results when we fall in love with the metaphors and stop looking beyond them to what they were meant to represent. When we attribute such acts to the work of demons...many people stop right there and begin shadow boxing rather than addressing that which the metaphor of demons stands for.

                    That is my experience.

                    There have always been horribly antisocial people. Angry people. Fearful people. People who's rage manifests in stealing others of that which they themselves feel denied of.

                    But now we have automatic weapons and large groups of people conveniently congregated for mass slaughter. We also have media to channel it into our homes and minds at a level that was previously impossible.

                    But all throughout history such atrocities have taken place. So much of it in broad daylight, in front of people's faces, involving vast numbers of people both to execute it and as victims of execution. Every day many children die of horrible child abuse, starvation under governmental regimes that control food and aid supplies, in wars where they are handed automatic weapons and told to kill. This even is extra horrible to us because it reminds us that we are not immune. Wealth and "freedom" don't excuse us from reality.

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                      #11
                      Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                      I believe there's a negative energy flow and a positive energy flow.
                      Which you attune to and use is a personal matter.
                      Neither are necessarily evil or good. It all depends on your viewpoint or how you use the energy.

                      As far as a spiritual force of goodness or a force of evil, Louisvillain summed it up nicely.

                      Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
                      Good and evil are human creations, human terms. Nature and the gods do not follow such narrow, boxed-in things. They are outside of it.
                      "The fire could not be tamed with the wind,
                      nor the wind suppressed by the flames.
                      As blending the Light with the Dark
                      merely results in Grey." -Ville Friman

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                        #12
                        Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                        Do I think there's a Power (or three) that would like to see the world burn? Yes.

                        Do I think the existence of such Powers generally absolves human beings of responsibility for their own actions? Hell no. Humans get choices. Sometimes we make the wrong ones. We don't need help to commit horrific acts against each other. We may get such help occasionally but we're quite capable of mass butchery on our own.
                        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                          #13
                          Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                          Sorry to but in, but as an Aspie, I've been trying to understand why the kid (Heck, he's near my age. I can't call him a kid, I suppose) did it. I don't think it was so much spiritual warfare. Rather, there are many dynamics.

                          The kid was taking psychology and history. He could have felt that the children could grow up to be hollow as the people he saw around himself (soon to be parents), and thus tried to deliver an early trauma to change that.

                          He shot his mother, the gun enthusiast, first. To me, that says "I'll prove to you guns are bad."

                          The principal and psychiatrist approached the kid rapidly (Running). What's the last thing you do to a scared animal? Run at it.

                          He came in with a bulletproof vest - he expected to be resisted from the beginning. He did not expect to go through with it. Someone even says they heard "I told you not to go through with it." When police resistance failed in his mind, he had to stop himself. Thus the suicide.

                          The picture I saw of him running had his face looking like any Pervasive Development Disorder child when they are determined to do something to prove a point, but scared, caged, ect.


                          I would say that would be the result of a child who absorbed too much of the strains and arguments through books, people, and news, and finally felt he had to shock the system into something.

                          Note: Just the results of bouncing ideas between myself and a person who has worked aspies/autistics/others. Thus take what I have noted with a pound of salt.

                          Reason why I post this: There are those who continually bicker and use this stuff as fuel. There are those who are now saying any person exhibiting "weird" tendancies should be watched, despite the fact that a few days earlier, a mall shooting was done by a social partygoer. I personally think such political/activist discussions perpetuate the feelings that lead to violence. Negative action/thought currently seems to grow because it is fed more.
                          Also, people are increasingly trying to control people. If you force a horse to drink, it will either become broken, or break your foot.

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                            #14
                            Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                            So what's the point in killing his mother? What does that teach her?
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                            My blog


                            "...leave me curled up in my ball,
                            surrounded by plush, downy things,
                            ill prepared, but willing,
                            to descend."

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                              #15
                              Re: Spiritual Warfare?

                              So, we are doing armchair psychiatry now?
                              Lemme get my couch.
                              Satan is my spirit animal

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