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    Re: Heathen Q&A

    Originally posted by Alienist View Post
    How do you exactly pray to a Norse deity? Do you have to have an altar to them? I'm assuming you would need a statue of Thor or something related to Thor like a hammer or something. Is there a specific way you can pray to them?

    I did have one more question. Do any Heathens know of any Hofs in the world that still exist? Is there any Ve's around? If so, where might they be located? I hear there are Ve's but I hear there are almost no Hofs but people are trying to get money to build some around in America, Iceland and Germany.
    I have a shrine to the gods where I leave offerings. I also may place items for blessing, like my husband's gun before he hunts. I don't think a statue or picture is necessary for prayer or worship. By this definition: Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity, an object of worship, or a spiritual entity through deliberate communication, then yes I do. I have asked for blessings, insight, advice and protection from the gods. For both myself and others. Usually I make and offering and simply state what's going on.

    Comment


      Re: Heathen Q&A

      Im new to Paganism and I have started reading "To walk a pagan path" it helped with learning some things like Holidays, how to worship for all kinds of pagan religions like greek pagan, irish pagan, saxon pagan etc. It just kind of helps figure out what path you want to go down or if none of those paths are for you.

      Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in

      Comment


        Re: Heathen Q&A

        Originally posted by CuppCake View Post
        Im new to Paganism and I have started reading "To walk a pagan path" it helped with learning some things like Holidays, how to worship for all kinds of pagan religions like greek pagan, irish pagan, saxon pagan etc. It just kind of helps figure out what path you want to go down or if none of those paths are for you.

        Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in
        It seems to me that you may have wandered into the Heathen part of this forum. I don't quite know what you're asking, but I will try to formulate a few questions from what you've written, and hopefully this will clear things up.

        How much carry-over is there between Heathenry and other forms of paganism?
        I believe that there are very few similarities between this and other folkways. Even our "sects" can sometimes have significantly different ceremonies, but I would say that every Heathen believes (literally or not) in the Aesir, Vanir, etc. and venerates their ancestors.

        Well what should I read if I want to learn more?
        It was suggested earlier that one should read the Havamal, a particular saga, the Havamal again, then a different saga, and repeat ad infinitum. I picked up a nice book by Kevin Crossley-Holland which is a good first step into Heathenry.

        Is Heathenry a path?
        The concept of a religion being a path seems very Wiccan to me, and foreign in terms of Heathenry. When people talk about "paths" I wonder where they're going. My Heathenry takes place in my community and by being a good member of it, and making where I am better.

        Comment


          Re: Heathen Q&A

          I am interested in Heathenry and have some questions that will probably seem silly to those with more experience in this path. The heathens I've met so far have been very gracious in assisting with educational resources and inclusive to new comers, for which I am grateful. The group I know of is reconstructionist with little-to-no mysticism or magic, and has strong ties to the military. I have never been in the military and don't have the first clue about that experience. Are the gods even going to notice or care about someone like me as I'm probably not going to Valhalla because I'm probably not going to die in battle? My understanding is that I'll probably go to Hel and I'm under the impression that this is frowned upon.

          I have also noticed, with this particular group (which is the only local group to my knowledge), there is an undercurrent of patriarchy and adherence to stereotypical gender roles. This may be an unfair question because I know not all groups are going to operate like this one but, is this common? With a beginner's look into the lore, I thought Heathen Traditions portrayed strong, intelligent, and independent goddesses and giantesses. Is this actually the case? I am a feminist, tree-hugging, hard polytheist and animist, witch. Is there room for someone like me in this religion?

          What is the difference between the gods and the giants (since they seem to marry each other alot)? I heard one heathen on a podcast say she was "shunned" due to her work with the giants, Loki, and Hel. Why would this happen?

          All that being said, I've heard a little about the Seidr. Could someone please tell me more about them? Could someone give resources so I may learn more?
          Last edited by thalassa; 25 Nov 2014, 07:18.

          Comment


            Re: Heathen Q&A

            I'm on my phone or else I'd give a better, more detailed response with quotes, though I may go back and do that later when I'm home at the computer.

            As for your concerns about the military, I'd tell you not to worry at all. While it may cause you to be somewhat of an outsider with the group you are talking about, I feel that it doesn't make a difference to the gods one way or another. Things change, grow, adapt, and adjust in order to survive, and religion is no different. A good life and a good death today can be thought of as vastly different than it was then. Still, there was no shame in being a farmer, or a craftsman, or what have you.

            Again, perhaps while the path is for you, this group may not be. There surely is room for you in it.

            The gods and giants thing is a huge debate, as well as the veneration of Loki. Like other religions, there are a number or sects, you could say, that accept or do not accept different things. From a Northern Tradition view, rather than a Heathen or Asatru one, all these are acceptable.

            As I said, I'll elaborate more later when I can.

            Comment


              Re: Heathen Q&A

              I'm Northern Tradition, not Heathen, so with that in mind...

              Originally posted by Raven View Post
              I am interested in Heathenry and have some questions that will probably seem silly to those with more experience in this path. The heathens I've met so far have been very gracious in assisting with educational resources and inclusive to new comers, for which I am grateful. The group I know of is reconstructionist with little-to-no mysticism or magic, and has strong ties to the military. I have never been in the military and don't have the first clue about that experience. Are the gods even going to notice or care about someone like me as I'm probably not going to Valhalla because I'm probably not going to die in battle? My understanding is that I'll probably go to Hel and I'm under the impression that this is frowned upon.
              The short answer is that yes, the gods will notice you and care about you, if you put the time and effort into them. Contrary to popular modern belief, Viking Age peoples were not all warriors, they did not all go aviking and they did not all die gloriously in battle. For the most part, they were farmers.

              Now this is where it gets a bit complicated...

              Valholl was specifically the place that CHOSEN warriors went when they died. Othinn chooses half the slain warriers to reside in Valholl, but Freyja chooses half to go to Folkvangr. The express purpose of the Einherjar (the slain warriers in Valholl) is to serve in Othinn's army come Ragnarok. By collecting slain warriors and sticking them in a hall where they can spend eternity eating, drinking, killing each other and being resurrected, he is forming and training an army to fight for him at Ragnarok (as there aren't enough Aesir to fight the hordes of Jotnar alone, and they lost the first major war they fought).

              This is where opinions on the matter differ a bit. Modern society has glorified Valholl to the point that it seems like the only place a 'good Heathen' should want to end up. But that is not historically accurate, or even supported in the Lore. I find it particularly ironic that the most militant belief in this seems to be amongst recon Heathens. Many people believe that the gods have evolved beyond the original purpose of Valholl. I'm not so sure about that. Yes, I absolutely believe that gods evolve and that their interactions and expectations of us have changed over time. I'm just not sure that Othinn has got to the point where he's letting just any old person into Valholl. The other thing to think about is that Viking Age warriors weren't necessarily career military. Many of them were farmers and craftsman who took up arms when and as needed... and for the most part, they still counted as 'slain warriors'. So in that sense, I actually DO agree that the definition of 'warrior' needs to evolve a bit from 'military person'... many of us have the exact same spirit, and would take up arms when and as needed, it's just that we don't have the same opportunities to. So do we still count when we die? I'm not really sure on that one, to be honest. And I don't work closely enough with Othinn to ask him about it.

              My question is, why would anyone want to go to Valholl if they aren't a career military person? Because that's what they think a 'good Heathen' should want? Because that's what they think Viking Age peoples wanted? Personally, I'm one of those people who would take up arms when and as needed, would defend my loved ones to the death, and regularly enjoy losing myself in the romantized idea of glorious battle... BUT, spending eternity drinking and fighting and feasting in Valholl so that I can go off and fight in Othinn's army... I don't want that. I'd MUCH rather retire peacefully to Helheim (though I may then end up being drafted into Hella's army, but I hear you have the choice to refuse there).

              Where Viking Age people went when they died is actually a number of places. Valholl was only one of them. Folkvangr was another. If you died at sea, Ran claimed you for Aegirsheim and may or may not have sent you elsewhere as she saw fit. Most people went to Helheim (which from all accounts is actually quite peaceful except for Nastrond). Some people never left this world at all, and became protective wights of certain landmarks and barrows. Nowdays I think those options are all still open, plus there's a growing trend of people who believe that if they are devoted enough to their chosen deity, they will be claimed after death.

              I think the reason we fixate on Valholl is that we are fixated on this romanticized notion of the military and battle. We watch movies about Vikings who want to die gloriously and be claimed by Othinn, who are repulsed by the idea of dying of illness. Some of that is reflected in the Lore and in the Sagas. But sometimes I think that is more a statement of those people not wanting to grow old or ill and be a burden to their families and their communities. I think it's also part of what made Viking Age warriors so formidable... the fact that their religious and cultural beliefs promised them a glorious afterlife if they died in this dirty, bloody, horrifying and terror-inducing battlefield. What we SHOULD be focusing on is living a 'right life', cultivating frith (peace or harmony), honoring the vaettir and the ancestors, and generally trying to make the most of what we have. Maybe we'll end up in Valholl... maybe we'll end up in Helheim. But there is no shame in ending up in Helheim. And whether or not the gods will notice you has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you are military or a 'warrior' at heart.

              And after all that, I have to tell you that the fist pumping, chest thumping, military worshipping, uber macho 'Heathen' is an unfortunate stereotype that largely misses the point of what it is to worship the Northern gods. There are groups that have fallen blindly into this stereotype... but they are not the only groups. Make sure you branch out a bit and have the chance to learn that not all Heathens and NT folk are like that.

              Originally posted by Raven View Post
              I have also noticed, with this particular group (which is the only local group to my knowledge), there is an undercurrent of patriarchy and adherence to stereotypical gender roles. This may be an unfair question because I know not all groups are going to operate like this one but, is this common? With a beginner's look into the lore, I thought Heathen Traditions portrayed strong, intelligent, and independent goddesses and giantesses. Is this actually the case? I am a feminist, tree-hugging, hard polytheist and animist, witch. Is there room for someone like me in this religion?
              Viking Age women had far more rights than their contemporaries from other lands. They could own land, for a start. They could and did rule when their husbands were away or died. They could divorce their husbands. And they could fight. There WERE still gender stereotypes and gender roles, but it was easier for a Viking Age woman to live outside of those in the North than it was in say, Gaul or Rome. And as you say, there are a number of very strong, intelligent and independent goddesses (including the Jotnar ones).

              There is absolutely room for someone like you in this group of religions. But you'll learn soon enough that Heathenism is not one faith, but several. Look at different groups, look at recon vs non-recon, and look at the Northern Tradition vs traditional Heathenry.

              Originally posted by Raven View Post
              What is the difference between the gods and the giants (since they seem to marry each other alot)? I heard one heathen on a podcast say she was "shunned" due to her work with the giants, Loki, and Hel. Why would this happen?
              Oooh this is a loaded question.

              I'm going to point you to this thread about Hodhr where I just made a post about the Jotnar yesterday. That's just 'cos I'm too lazy to type it all out again!

              Basically, recon Heathens dislike the Jotnar (what you're calling the giants). Largely for reasons that I personally think are hypocritical, petty and ridiculous. Recon Heathens often (not always) believe that the Jotnar are the enemy of the Aesir (which they are really) and are thus to be shunned. They then tack on all sorts of reasons like 'they aren't real gods', 'they're evil chaotic beings' (which a read through of the Lore will show you is not actually correct), 'they weren't worshipped by Viking Age people' (they do often recognise that Skadhi is an exception to this and say that's why it's okay to worship her... but conveniently ignore the Jotnar heritage in most of the Aesir) and a few other reasons. Loki and Hela have their own stories and controversies that contribute to the squabbles.

              At the end of the day, whether or not you feel that the Jotnar are worthy of worship is up to you. But you need to realise that if you decide to work with the Jotnar, you are likely to be ostracized from recon Heathen groups. Sometimes with acid vehemance, bullying and outright discrimination. This is why the Nothern Tradition was born... most NT folks work with the Jotnar in conjunction with or in preference to the Aesir and Vanir. Many work primarily with the Alfar or Dvergr. The NT is the flip side of the recon Heathen coin... it's the same core beliefs, cosmology and attitudes, but encompassing all of the entities of the Nine Worlds and without the discrimination and narrow mindedness. I will of course say that not ALL recon Heathens are like that, and please don't assume that every Heathen you meet will be like that... because they aren't. But there's a large proportion of recon Heathen groups and individuals that are like that, so be careful.

              Originally posted by Raven View Post
              All that being said, I've heard a little about the Seidr. Could someone please tell me more about them? Could someone give resources so I may learn more?
              Seidhr is a practice, not a group. People who practice or utilise seidhr may be called seidhrkona (if a woman) or seidhrmadhr (if a man), or sometimes volva (if they are a woman who specialises in oracular seidhr). Some people say that seidhr is like Viking Age shamanism, which is not strictly true but which is a useful simile. We don't know 100% exactly what was and wasn't done during seidhr from a historical point of view, because the primary sources are a bit unclear on that matter. Nowdays, it usually involves trance in order to communicate with the gods or ancestors and receive messages, sometimes there may be possession, soul travel in the Nine Worlds, healing and those sorts of things. Usually it's divination and oracle work, but via a sort of mediumship rather than using divination tools. Witchcraft may or may not be a part of seidhr, and it varies between groups as to whether they include it or not.

              A good place to start researching seidhr is Diana Paxson's site Hrafnar. It also has some really good articles on various aspects of Heathenry from an open-minded and semi-recon perspective. They are probably one of the best introductory Heathen groups I've come across and are a really good place to start.

              I can also recommend some books that you can read if you are interested.

              Comment


                Re: Heathen Q&A

                "The entrance to Valhalla (Hall of the Slain) is through a gaping wound gained in combat."

                Don't fret, Raven; the chances that any of the folks in the group you mentioned will die in battle are infinitesimal (unless they are active duty military deployed in a combat zone). When you think about it, only a very tiny fraction of the world's population will ever meet that requirement, and even fewer will be chosen by the Valkyries (translation: Choosers of the Slain) to become One-Harriers (Einerjar). Wouldn't you rather spend eternity feasting with your Ancestors in one of Helheim's many cozy and comfortable halls?

                Rae'ya, I agree that while most Viking Age people lived on farms, most Viking Age people were thralls (slaves), or at best free-born peasants who worked for the land owner for subsistence wages. Of course, no Sagas were written about these people, so we tend to overlook them.

                As to the rest, well, go where you will and where you are led. I personally have no truck with Ymir's children; most of them have atrocious table manners, and little regard for your furniture...
                I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

                Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
                Clan of my Clan
                Kin of my Kin
                Blood of my Blood



                For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

                Comment


                  Re: Heathen Q&A

                  Originally posted by Rick View Post
                  Rae'ya, I agree that while most Viking Age people lived on farms, most Viking Age people were thralls (slaves), or at best free-born peasants who worked for the land owner for subsistence wages. Of course, no Sagas were written about these people, so we tend to overlook them.
                  True. But I said they were farmers and craftsmen, for the most part... didn't say it was for themselves

                  The modern tendancy to romanticize the past has a lot to answer for.

                  Comment


                    Re: Heathen Q&A

                    Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                    The modern tendancy to romanticize the past has a lot to answer for.
                    ^^^^THIS. This right here. Life in ancient times was about making sure the cesspit for the new outhouse was far enough from the well to prevent poisoning yourself, and trying to raise enough cabbage so that you didn't have to eat straw before the winter was over, and hoping the creek didn't go dry in the summer, and shearing sheep and spinning wool into thread and weaving thread into cloth and sewing cloth into garments and sails and other useful things, and keeping your fishing nets in good repair, and carving that new oar for your fishing boat, and praying that the rodents don't urinate and defecate too badly in your grain stores (as if your farm was large enough and prosperous enough to produce grain, and enough of it wasn't covered in ergot so it was fit to store), and having to re-sod your roof every spring just so dirt and dust and bugs could fall from it, and living inside a one-room hovel with the landowner's family and all the other slaves and servants and their families and the livestock and all the other domestic animals, and... well, I think we all get the picture...
                    I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

                    Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
                    Clan of my Clan
                    Kin of my Kin
                    Blood of my Blood



                    For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                    And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Rick View Post

                      ^^^^THIS. This right here. Life in ancient times was about making sure the cesspit for the new outhouse was far enough from the well to prevent poisoning yourself, and trying to raise enough cabbage so that you didn't have to eat straw before the winter was over, and hoping the creek didn't go dry in the summer, and shearing sheep and spinning wool into thread and weaving thread into cloth and sewing cloth into garments and sails and other useful things, and keeping your fishing nets in good repair, and carving that new oar for your fishing boat, and praying that the rodents don't urinate and defecate too badly in your grain stores (as if your farm was large enough and prosperous enough to produce grain, and enough of it wasn't covered in ergot so it was fit to store), and having to re-sod your roof every spring just so dirt and dust and bugs could fall from it, and living inside a one-room hovel with the landowner's family and all the other slaves and servants and their families and the livestock and all the other domestic animals, and... well, I think we all get the picture...
                      Ahhhh that was the life!!!
                      ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                      RIP

                      I have never been across the way
                      Seen the desert and the birds
                      You cut your hair short
                      Like a shush to an insult
                      The world had been yelling
                      Since the day you were born
                      Revolting with anger
                      While it smiled like it was cute
                      That everything was shit.

                      - J. Wylder

                      Comment


                        Re: Heathen Q&A

                        Thanks to everyone for your responses. I really do feel like I'm on the right path but I have a lot to learn.

                        Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                        A good place to start researching seidhr is Diana Paxson's site Hrafnar...
                        I can also recommend some books that you can read if you are interested.
                        I'll check out Diana Paxson's site and I'm totally interested in book suggestions. Thanks again!

                        Comment


                          Re: Heathen Q&A

                          So it appears that my wife and I have some sort of spirit that's messing with us. Things keep going missing and then mysteriously showing back up. This morning was the craziest occurrence. My wife has a necklace with four charms on it. A bit after waking up this morning, she realized that two of the charms were missing. We searched all over the apartment for them with no luck, until finally my wife got mad and yelled at the spirit. Then she felt a tap on the back of her neck, and her charms were back on her necklace!

                          My question is, could this be a house wight? My wife is very sensitive to spirits and the like, and she says we don't have anything that actually stays here with us, although we will have visitors from time to time. But I'm just wondering, do apartments even get house wights? I'm wondering if maybe I should be trying to work with this spirit or wight, or whatever it is, instead of trying to push it away.
                          Come geek out with me and my buddies on The Bizzarp! Podcast - new episodes every Friday!

                          "Biting my truant pen, beating myself for spite,"Fool," said my Muse to me, "look in thy heart, and write."
                          - Sir Philip Sidney

                          Comment


                            Re: Heathen Q&A

                            To me, the fact that the charms were returned "on demand" shows that who or what ever was responsible is at least semi-compliant with your wishes. I would set some rules for the "entity" to follow after due consideration. Set some rooms and "stations" where they cannot go, (like the bedroom) and actions that are not allowed to take. The space belongs to you and you have the ability and the responsibility to set the rules. You also have the right to modify the rules as necessary.
                            The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                            I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

                            Comment


                              Re: Heathen Q&A

                              I agree with DragonsFriend. Spirits can often be reasoned with. I'm sure he/she will understand you when you set rules.

                              Appartments can have spirits as well as any house. I used to have a (not so very nice) spirit years back when I lived in an appartment. It targeted me, probably because I didn't feel very good and stable at the time. I confronted it, told it to stay away from me. After that I could always feel 'something' in the house present, but it didn't move my stuff anymore.

                              Comment


                                Re: Heathen Q&A

                                Originally posted by daveydwb View Post

                                My question is, could this be a house wight?
                                Yes, and they can be quite mischievous. Make an offering... try beer, milk, sweets, some of the meal you are having. See what it prefers. But don't spoil it or overindulge it, they can get rather demanding. I light incense, put small flowers, a candle, juice, beer, milk every now and then. I think mine was really cheesed off at me last winter. I had frozen and burst pipes and floods twice in one week. I think it was because I kept saying how much I hate the house... actually I hate the design. I think the husvaettir was offended because after all, it's its home also. I stopped saying that, and started making offerings, which seemed to have pacified the spirit.

                                But I'm just wondering, do apartments even get house wights? I'm wondering if maybe I should be trying to work with this spirit or wight, or whatever it is, instead of trying to push it away.
                                Yes, apartments have spirits.
                                śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                                śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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