Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

[Rae'ya]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Didn't ask him about that! My dad couldn't give a stuff about the environment and that was kinda my point... 'free' renewable energy can just lead to over-consumption of said energy, which I think misses the point of 'free' renewable energy. At least for those of us who actually care about our consumption... my dad just sees that he doesn't have to pay for his electricity and he's happy.

My mum and my stepdad are the ones who run the self-sufficiency and eco-aware systems.

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Also this:

http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/solar-panel-toxic-manufacturing-byproducts-product-disposal-needs-greater-oversight-report-urges.html

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Better source:

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5650

This is very interesting... from the article I gather that only some manufacturers have this problem? So it would depend on who you bought from as to what the impact of this would be.

But on the flip side of that, how does it compare with the impact of current electricity providers? I've never looked into it in depth, but solar power is an alternative to traditional fossil fuel derived electricity, which has it's own negative environmental impact. Are we really just looking at the lesser of two evils here? Or the lesser of... four or five evils when you factor in other alternatives.

Of course, her in Australia most solar systems actually just feed energy back into the grid - your house isn't wired directly into the panels unless you specifically have that done (which is costly and only really viable if you build a new house designed to draw straight from the panels) - you draw energy off the traditional grid, and feed energy back in, thus negating your costs and reducing the amount of energy that the electricity companies draw from fossil fuel sources.

In Australia, some of our electricity companies are also starting to draw power from wind farms as an alternative, which you can support via who you have your account with. So it becomes a complex decision when you scratch under the surface.

[Heka]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

I love wind farms! I think the turbines are so beautiful! The absolute crap and crappy people trying to halt wind farms being created drives me bonkers!

[thalassa]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Didn't ask him about that! My dad couldn't give a stuff about the environment and that was kinda my point... 'free' renewable energy can just lead to over-consumption of said energy, which I think misses the point of 'free' renewable energy. At least for those of us who actually care about our consumption... my dad just sees that he doesn't have to pay for his electricity and he's happy.

My mum and my stepdad are the ones who run the self-sufficiency and eco-aware systems.

Yeah, but if he's using the electricity, at least its renewable. I mean...not watching consumption that is carbon neutral is still better than using fossil fuels for your electricity. Although, since we are talking about doing laundry....hullo, wasting water?!?!

[Rae'ya]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Yeah, but if he's using the electricity, at least its renewable. I mean...not watching consumption that is carbon neutral is still better than using fossil fuels for your electricity. Although, since we are talking about doing laundry....hullo, wasting water?!?!

It's true that over-using solar derived electricity is better than over-using fossil fuel derived electricity, but I still considered it kind of wasteful.

Water... Australia has just come out of a ten year drought cycle, so we've just spent the last year or two going "OMG WE HAVE WATER" lol. We went from having permanent restrictions that meant you couldn't water your lawn or flowers (veggies only - and then only between certain times of the day and certain days) to suddenly having no restrictions at all. It's kind of weird. Obviously my dad doesn't care and is wasteful in every sense of the word... but my husband and I are still like... turn off that tap while you brush your teeth... don't pour that water down the drain, take it out to the garden... wash the car with a single bucket and an Enjo, not the hose... is this washing detergent grey water safe? etc etc. About the only thing we have relaxed up on is allowing longer showers... 2 minutes is HARD when you have hair as long as mine lol.

[Heka]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

It's true that over-using solar derived electricity is better than over-using fossil fuel derived electricity, but I still considered it kind of wasteful.

Water... Australia has just come out of a ten year drought cycle, so we've just spent the last year or two going "OMG WE HAVE WATER" lol. We went from having permanent restrictions that meant you couldn't water your lawn or flowers (veggies only - and then only between certain times of the day and certain days) to suddenly having no restrictions at all. It's kind of weird. Obviously my dad doesn't care and is wasteful in every sense of the word... but my husband and I are still like... turn off that tap while you brush your teeth... don't pour that water down the drain, take it out to the garden... wash the car with a single bucket and an Enjo, not the hose... is this washing detergent grey water safe? etc etc. About the only thing we have relaxed up on is allowing longer showers... 2 minutes is HARD when you have hair as long as mine lol.

I can also relate to this. We've had the wettest winter this year in about 70 years (I think it's been about 3 inches). And even though I don't pay for water here, and I live off rain water tanks in my other home (I work away form home) I still tip toe around all water issues. Sprinklers on timers, water the garden from a can, replace lawn with gravel, buying drinking water (cos town water is not fit to drink - yes I live way up in the middle of nowhere haha), not having had a bath in about 5 years... Our tanks are full though now, for the first time in about 3 years... I was in the shower for about 20 min... it was amazing! Then it rained again! YAY!

Though with all these I still don't know if I'd call us out of drought...

[Rae'ya]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

I can also relate to this. We've had the wettest winter this year in about 70 years (I think it's been about 3 inches). And even though I don't pay for water here, and I live off rain water tanks in my other home (I work away form home) I still tip toe around all water issues. Sprinklers on timers, water the garden from a can, replace lawn with gravel, buying drinking water (cos town water is not fit to drink - yes I live way up in the middle of nowhere haha), not having had a bath in about 5 years... Our tanks are full though now, for the first time in about 3 years... I was in the shower for about 20 min... it was amazing! Then it rained again! YAY!

Though with all these I still don't know if I'd call us out of drought...

My grandpa is a farmer in Victoria and he told us the year before the restrictions lifted that we were coming out of the drought cycle, and that it happens in cycles that the old farmers tract, but which weather people don't pay attention to. He has rain and growth records from his father and his grandfather who farmed the land before him, and he keeps his own records. South Australia is the driest state in Aus, so I'm not sure that we'll ever have as much water as the rest of the country (especially up your way), but it's still a surreal luxury to not have restrictions lol.

My parents' rainwater tank overflowed this year. Overflowed! They recently bought a new one, set it up, and promptly ordered a second one to cope with the load... and it's only coming off the carport! And when my mum accidentally drained the new one by leaving the tap on, it was full again in less than a week. They have... five now, though I'm not sure how many litres it adds up to as they're all different sizes. One is specifically devoted to topping up the aquaponics... they feed the aquaponics system, the hydroponics and water the dirt-gardens purely off rainwater. When we have our own place, hubby and I want to set up tanks piped into the house. An old workmate of mine had a set up like that and they could switch between mains and their tanks at will. It meant they only had to use mains when the tanks were empty because of lack of rain.

My hubby is American, from Louisiana, and so water shortages are an amazingly alien concept to him. As are rainwater tanks lol

[Heka]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

My grandpa is a farmer in Victoria and he told us the year before the restrictions lifted that we were coming out of the drought cycle, and that it happens in cycles that the old farmers tract, but which weather people don't pay attention to. He has rain and growth records from his father and his grandfather who farmed the land before him, and he keeps his own records. South Australia is the driest state in Aus, so I'm not sure that we'll ever have as much water as the rest of the country (especially up your way), but it's still a surreal luxury to not have restrictions lol.

My parents' rainwater tank overflowed this year. Overflowed! They recently bought a new one, set it up, and promptly ordered a second one to cope with the load... and it's only coming off the carport! And when my mum accidentally drained the new one by leaving the tap on, it was full again in less than a week. They have... five now, though I'm not sure how many litres it adds up to as they're all different sizes. One is specifically devoted to topping up the aquaponics... they feed the aquaponics system, the hydroponics and water the dirt-gardens purely off rainwater. When we have our own place, hubby and I want to set up tanks piped into the house. An old workmate of mine had a set up like that and they could switch between mains and their tanks at will. It meant they only had to use mains when the tanks were empty because of lack of rain.

My hubby is American, from Louisiana, and so water shortages are an amazingly alien concept to him. As are rainwater tanks lol

itd be fascinating to see your grandpas records. I believe in the cycles, but I wonder if he's noticed any changes, relating to climate change?

ours overflowed too, and we have 3 (though one leaks, well have to get rid of it). Thankfully there's been almost no one home for the last 4 months, so we never actually ran out, it got close though!


we only have rain water to the house (mains to the toilet). My parents have it all dually linked to the house. They usually have a cocktail - cold is mains, hot is rain.

I should point out here that "mains" is not Murray water, we have a town bore, that is so unfit for drinking, it calcifies the pipes till they have holes, then calcifies the holes back up again.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Ugh I have terrible memories of bore water... my aunt and uncle used to drink bore water at their house... theirs had been tested and was perfectly safe for drinking, just terrible tasting due to the mineral content. No amount of cordial hid THAT taste. lol.

It occurs to me sometimes that country people often live what city people consider 'alternative living' lives, just by virtue of living off the land. I'm reading a homesteading book at the moment, because it's something I'm really interested in (mostly from a self-sufficiency and connection with the landvaettir point of view), and much of it is surprisingly 'normal' to me because I grew up in the sticks. We weren't self-sufficient, but we did have a hobby farm and my family were farmers and my friends' families were farmers or raised stock. We butchered our own meat, we had chickens, we had rain water, we weren't connected to mains but to the local channel via a crotchety old water pump, we didn't have heating apart from a wood fire, we grew veggies, we helped my aunt and uncle move the cattle up the road to another paddock, we had to drive through flocks of sheep that were being moved, we drank fresh milk from the dairy around the corner, we had fruit trees, we made our own jam, we collected snails for the chooks, we chipped burrs in the paddocks, we collected field mushrooms, we used a drop dunny at my aunt and uncle's, we had a septic tank at our own house (and I recall at least once when it blocked)... that was just life. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has experienced that lol

[thalassa]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

It occurs to me sometimes that country people often live what city people consider 'alternative living' lives, just by virtue of living off the land. I'm reading a homesteading book at the moment, because it's something I'm really interested in (mostly from a self-sufficiency and connection with the landvaettir point of view), and much of it is surprisingly 'normal' to me because I grew up in the sticks. We weren't self-sufficient, but we did have a hobby farm and my family were farmers and my friends' families were farmers or raised stock. We butchered our own meat, we had chickens, we had rain water, we weren't connected to mains but to the local channel via a crotchety old water pump, we didn't have heating apart from a wood fire, we grew veggies, we helped my aunt and uncle move the cattle up the road to another paddock, we had to drive through flocks of sheep that were being moved, we drank fresh milk from the dairy around the corner, we had fruit trees, we made our own jam, we collected snails for the chooks, we chipped burrs in the paddocks, we collected field mushrooms, we used a drop dunny at my aunt and uncle's, we had a septic tank at our own house (and I recall at least once when it blocked)... that was just life. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has experienced that lol

Yeah, I lived in town, but we had a garden we canned, etc. My grandparents had apple trees, and we used to pick berries down in "the ditch" (the overgrown drainage area between their row of houses and the folks on the street behind them). And right outside of town, my great-grandparents had a mini-farm--with well water, chickens, etc. Its not that far off from my experience, even as a someone that lived a more suburban existence.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

The bf and I are looking at buying a yurt from these guys...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

... we had a septic tank at our own house (and I recall at least once when it blocked)... that was just life. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has experienced that lol

Off topic and irrelevant...

Our tank froze up a couple years ago & we spent two weeks pooping in a bucket. We had a guy come out & clear the line. He drained the tank, and climbed in with a hose to melt the blockage.

That's a job I'm glad isn't mine...:xD:

[Heka]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Ugh I have terrible memories of bore water... my aunt and uncle used to drink bore water at their house... theirs had been tested and was perfectly safe for drinking, just terrible tasting due to the mineral content. No amount of cordial hid THAT taste. lol.

It occurs to me sometimes that country people often live what city people consider 'alternative living' lives, just by virtue of living off the land. I'm reading a homesteading book at the moment, because it's something I'm really interested in (mostly from a self-sufficiency and connection with the landvaettir point of view), and much of it is surprisingly 'normal' to me because I grew up in the sticks. We weren't self-sufficient, but we did have a hobby farm and my family were farmers and my friends' families were farmers or raised stock. We butchered our own meat, we had chickens, we had rain water, we weren't connected to mains but to the local channel via a crotchety old water pump, we didn't have heating apart from a wood fire, we grew veggies, we helped my aunt and uncle move the cattle up the road to another paddock, we had to drive through flocks of sheep that were being moved, we drank fresh milk from the dairy around the corner, we had fruit trees, we made our own jam, we collected snails for the chooks, we chipped burrs in the paddocks, we collected field mushrooms, we used a drop dunny at my aunt and uncle's, we had a septic tank at our own house (and I recall at least once when it blocked)... that was just life. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has experienced that lol

it was never like that for us. Firstly my parents are both city people, and ones a chef, ones a doctor, so none of that farmer related stuff. Also, it is so difficult to grow anything here. Add up shit water with terrible clay soil and temperature extremes and you get a very low yield. I want these things though.

My grandmother is Swiss and was there in the war years etc and she does all growing and canning etc. she sends me boxes do quince paste each year and I eat it like lollies

[Willow]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Asked my hubby if we could get some chickens and a goat and he said no.

Maybe I can dig into the making my own soap/shampoo/beauty products/household cleansers though.. I'm scared the production processes would destroy my kitchen?

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Asked my hubby if we could get some chickens and a goat and he said no.

Maybe I can dig into the making my own soap/shampoo/beauty products/household cleansers though.. I'm scared the production processes would destroy my kitchen?

Here's a Machiavellian trick you might like to try -

Go into cheese making. Once you are up and running, you'll talk him into getting a goat or two, to save on goat cheese production costs. Then, once you have goats, you'll want some free range chickens (or ducks. We have ducks, and they lay really good eggs - so consider ducks) to keep the bugs down...


P. S. don't tell hubby this was my idea. I got enough ladies' husbands chaising me around with shotguns already. I don't need another.

[Willow]

Re: Homesteading, Living Off Grid, and Other Alternative Living

Here's a Machiavellian trick you might like to try -

Go into cheese making. Once you are up and running, you'll talk him into getting a goat or two, to save on goat cheese production costs. Then, once you have goats, you'll want some free range chickens (or ducks. We have ducks, and they lay really good eggs - so consider ducks) to keep the bugs down...


P. S. don't tell hubby this was my idea. I got enough ladies' husbands chaising me around with shotguns already. I don't need another.

hehe I might need to do that. Do ducks fly away though? Or are they penned or... clipped? *scratches head*