Guns

[thalassa]

Re: Guns

It is funny that you worded that in the way that you did.

Due to the tendency toward outlawing gun ownership, and the spirit behind the 2nd Amendment, I am more than willing to jump through hoops to keep my gun ownership off the records. I do not own a single gun that is registered to me... Every gun that I own was either a gift, or purchased from a private seller. And I like it that way. I am certain that Thomas Jefferson, if he lived today, would support encrypted communication. The 4th amendment is behind me on this. The government doesn't need to know who is armed... after all, they are, potentially, the ultimate enemy, this country exists because of a civilian uprising against the government... that is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

I think that the idea that there is a tendency towards outlawing gun ownership is a bit like saying that there is a widespread movement to ensure that minorities and women aren't allowed to vote. IMO, its a hyperbolic distraction.

And for that matter, I don't think that individual guns should be registered.

For example, Illinois has a FOID card. You can have a FOID card WITHOUT owning guns (needed it for using the range). You can have a FOID card AND own guns (and you don't register your guns as part of getting the card). All the FOID card means is that you've been background checked and are in the state's database as being authorized to buy/sell/own a gun. We have done all of these when we lived in Illinois. Now, conceivably do "they" know if I buy a gun because its somehow linked to my FOID card, maybe...but if I paid anything other than cash, "they" would probably know anyhow.

Thomas Jefferson is an interesting man of lofty ideals and supreme pragmatism. He was also a hypocrite, a bigot, and a spendthrift.

We restrict rights all the time...look at voting.

[ThorsSon]

Re: Guns

I absolutely recognize that this makes it harder for law abiding citizens to own weapons, and as a law abiding citizen, I'm fine with that. Because I'm willing to jump through the hoops to own my guns. Someone who refuses to do or is unable to do so probably isn't someone I want owning them in the first place, and I am more than fine with them then being illegal gun owners. I'm completely okay with the idea that illegal gun owners can be arrested simply for having guns. Or for buying and selling them illegally.

It is funny that you worded that in the way that you did.

Due to the tendency toward outlawing gun ownership, and the spirit behind the 2nd Amendment, I am more than willing to jump through hoops to keep my gun ownership off the records. I do not own a single gun that is registered to me... Every gun that I own was either a gift, or purchased from a private seller. And I like it that way. I am certain that Thomas Jefferson, if he lived today, would support encrypted communication. The 4th amendment is behind me on this. The government doesn't need to know who is armed... after all, they are, potentially, the ultimate enemy, this country exists because of a civilian uprising against the government... that is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

[Norse_Angel]

Re: Guns

The people should not have access to firearms or bladed weapons, with very limited exceptions based on need, and only the law enforcement officials (particularly specialist units) and the active duty military should be armed. That's my thoughts on the matter.

Mmm.. We can see a lot of differences in culture when we face off Japan vs The United States. Firstly, I'll point out that Chicago attempted to ban handguns. Not only did this lead to more violent shootings by gangs and their affiliates, it left the majority of the populace unprotected. If I were to have to choose to rob Man A vs Man B, if I knew both could not legally own a weapon, it wouldn't matter to me which I picked. But if I knew that Man B had a gun, while Man A did not, I would of course try to stick up Man A. Now if I knew both had a gun, it would deter me from robbing either. There are a lot of videos on YouTube of would-be-muggings where the act was stopped by the would-be victim pulling out a firearm.
In a perfect world, no one has the advantage over the other. But in the case of Chicago, this left the criminals well armed, and the regular populace open for attack. I feel that in any case, there will always be one reason or another to want a firearm in the states. Firstly, we can point to how this country earned its independence. No, we did not have an organized military in the beginning. It was every day citizens, on farmlands, and cities, who owned rifles for sport, or protection, that used them, not only for protection, but for freedom. They attempted to disarm the populace, but failed miserably. This is the birth of our second amendment right. We can fast forward to modern day times. The right to bear arms is a very loosely defined amendment. Of course a citizen can not own a tank, or a military grade fully automatic assault rifle, or a ballistic missile. How I interpret our laws is that we have a right to protect ourselves to the point of comfort. No, I do not need an AK47 to protect my home. Nor do I need a drone to go hunting.
There is also a fine line between the idiots who scream that the government is revoking our 2nd amendment, and reality. There is also a fine line between the idiots in America (no offense to you what so ever) who think guns should only be in hands of those sworn to protect our country vs those who want laws implemented for background checks and psychological tests on those who want to own a firearm. I myself, do not think the gov is trying to take away my handgun. There is no sense in that. But I believe that there should be stricter laws in owning one, and the process of obtaining one. In Illinois, you must be 21 to get a FOID card, which is the permit to own. I think this is wrong. If one can join the military at age 18, and be trained to kill with guns a lot more powerful than what we as citizens can own, they should too be able to own a handgun. But in the military, one does go through background checks, and psychological evaluations before even getting started. I think to own a firearm, one must go through the same evaluations on a civilian level. As well with the military, there is extensive training one must go through before being handed a military grade weapon. Same thing should be implemented in the states. One should have to go through 8-12 hours of training, and familiarization with the firearms they will be permitted to use. That's my own thought though.
On a different topic, no I do not feel comfortable in the fact that there are police with guns. For how many people have been killed this year by police negligence, or abuse of power, no. I feel comfortable that I can grab my 9mm, or my .22 to intercept someone breaking into my house, rather than locking a door, and going for my phone. I also feel comfortable that if I was ever put into a situation where I was being abused by one in power, I could stand my ground equally.

[thalassa]

Re: Guns

The people should not have access to firearms or bladed weapons, with very limited exceptions based on need, and only the law enforcement officials (particularly specialist units) and the active duty military should be armed. That's my thoughts on the matter.

I'm sorry, but I honestly think this is a horrible idea given the history of human civilization and governance.


With that being said...I've been around guns a bit. My family has owned guns most of my life, but they were not kept out because "guns are killing tools" and "anyone can get to them". Plus, I was in the military (so was the hubby). And hubby hunts and we do CW reenacting. I just like to shoot. I sometimes get to shoot with some pretty effing awesome people...last time I got to shoot was with NCIS agents doing an active shooter course. I've also gotten to shoot with FAST Company and the sim range for boarding vessels. I'm a fairly good shot with a rifle, but I've not found a handgun I can use comfortably due to carpal tunnel and elbow and shoulder issues (recoil sucks). I get to (occasionally) work with people that actually use their weapons for the eventuality/potential of shooting "bad guys with guns"...and I will say that from my observation and experience its not as simple as just being able to hit a target.

I think that the 2nd amendment doesn't read (in a constitutional sense) as those that oppose any gun laws think it does--as a historical reenactor, there are certain realities about muzzle loaders that do not bear out with modern fire arms. And I support reasonable restrictions on types of arms, training and ability/proficience and experience requirements (and I don't just mean being able to shoot a target--in a real world scenario, there's a bit more to tactics than being able hit what you aim at) and a reason for concealed carry, training and ability/proficiency requirements for open carry, transportation requirements, and who can buy/sell arms. I also think that gun owners should be licensed (I like the FOID card that IL uses), but not individual fire arms (which IL does not require as some states do) and that there should be a good database for people that are prohibited from carrying guns.

I absolutely recognize that this makes it harder for law abiding citizens to own weapons, and as a law abiding citizen, I'm fine with that. Because I'm willing to jump through the hoops to own my guns. Someone who refuses to do or is unable to do so probably isn't someone I want owning them in the first place, and I am more than fine with them then being illegal gun owners. I'm completely okay with the idea that illegal gun owners can be arrested simply for having guns. Or for buying and selling them illegally.

[LunarHarvest]

Re: Guns

Personally speaking most countries including my own don't have what I would consider to be proper gun and weapon ownership laws.

The only one that I can think of off the top of my head would be Japan - where permitting processes are tedious, extensive, and only permit those who have legitimate reason and need to acquire a firearm or bladed weapon, with most guns banned completely from public ownership even within this context (only a select few shotguns are permitted, with handguns and rifles banned completely); production of firearms is restricted and under continuous watch, and sales are meticulously observed; penalties for violations are harsh (possession is enough to earn eight years on the spot); and the law enforcement officials are given sufficient powers and resources to enforce the law properly.

The people should not have access to firearms or bladed weapons, with very limited exceptions based on need, and only the law enforcement officials (particularly specialist units) and the active duty military should be armed. That's my thoughts on the matter.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Guns

I never imagined I'd be a good shot, but I am. Kill zone good, left-handed grip (and I'm right-handed.) Go figure. Ruger SP-101, also a surprise - I thought I'd prefer something tiny and light.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Guns

My family has a small collection that I've practiced with several of over the years. If I can see the target and I'm familiar with the weapon then I'll generally hit within 2-3 inches of where I want. Past that, I enjoy them and I prefer to have them available (both on principle and because I enjoy working with them) but I also think a lot of people put too much emphasis on them. The time and dedication to make most people reliably dangerous with a firearm will also make them dangerous with a dozen other things and if the amount of energy spent debating gun rights was put into reining in far more immediate issues in our government than we wouldn't have to worry about a government going sufficiently batshit insane that we'd need to look for checks on tyrranny.

[Norse_Angel]

Oh yes, controversial topic. How many of us own a handgun, rifle, or any type of firearm? For the United States, do you feel our gun laws are effective, or should their be more/less governmental involvement in our right to bear arms (rawr)
For outside of The United States, what are your governments laws like with permits, open carry, and differing types of rifles? I know some countries outlawed conceal and carry, and some have even outlawed the ownership of handguns.
Feel free to give any type of stories relating to your experience with your guns. Do you go hunting? Shooting? Have you ever had to use your gun for protection?
Fire away friends