Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)
I don't mind that we are having this discussion, I bet we can both learn greatly from it! I just wish you weren't mentioning so much misinformation that can easily cleared up by checking just the Qur'an in most cases. Let me show you.
The reason I mentioned the "There is no compulsion in religion" verse is because you made the claim that there are no 'peaceful' verses in the revelation that was received in Madinah. I showed you one example, so clearly your claim is false.
And again, I never said there was no fighting that was ordained upon Muslims. My main point is that the reason given to Muslims to fight, has nothing to do with the points that you have mentioned. Just look a few verses BEFORE the one that you have posted, it says: "Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers." [9:13]
It gives not one reason, but THREE reasons on why fighting has been ordered here. One of them, as you can see, is the fact that they had begun to fight the Muslims first.
And if you go further back, in the same Surah, it talks about protecting the polytheists. "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." [9:6]
This verse is mentioned right after the order to fight them has been given in the verse before it. It is talking about a time where there was a truce between the Muslims and the Polytheists, right after they broke their oath against Muslims. fighting in general, if you'd like I can talk about that in my next reply.
I haven't commented on the topic of Jizyah, because you are still talking about
You are giving mixed messages. Should we or should we not rely on these scholars to understand the message of the Qur'an. One time you say they influenced the sources of Islam and changed them. And then when it suits you, you think we should rely on them to understand this verse. What I'm saying is that, they are great scholars but just like everyone else, they've made mistakes. I can also show you different opinions about verses like this one. But my whole point is that if you look at the Qur'an the message becomes quite clear if you want to form your own understanding. I've shown you where the Qur'an contradicts the claims that you have made. Or are you suggesting the opinion of some scholars is above the verses of the Qur'an itself?
Lots of countries have Shariah type rulings, doesn't mean they are based on Shariah. As a side note, it seems you are only focusing on one branch of Shariah, which is the punishments branch, and even that, the Saudi government has deviated greatly from it. But to get back on topic you are making completely false claims again:
You mentioned witnesses. What about this verse, which holds the witness of women above that of men? "But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;" [24:8]
Early in this Surah it describes the accusation of the husband that his wife has cheated on him and it explains how the witness of the wife is above that of the husband. You still didn't show me where I made a false claim that they are equal before god. I've shown my evidence from the Qur'an.
I can go into detail about the topic of hitting women if that's what you want. I'll just leave you with the fact that prohpet Muhammad has spoken against it in several sayings.
I don't mind that we are having this discussion, I bet we can both learn greatly from it! I just wish you weren't mentioning so much misinformation that can easily cleared up by checking just the Qur'an in most cases. Let me show you.
Without a doubt offensive fighting was ordained.
And again, I never said there was no fighting that was ordained upon Muslims. My main point is that the reason given to Muslims to fight, has nothing to do with the points that you have mentioned. Just look a few verses BEFORE the one that you have posted, it says: "Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers." [9:13]
It gives not one reason, but THREE reasons on why fighting has been ordered here. One of them, as you can see, is the fact that they had begun to fight the Muslims first.
And if you go further back, in the same Surah, it talks about protecting the polytheists. "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." [9:6]
This verse is mentioned right after the order to fight them has been given in the verse before it. It is talking about a time where there was a truce between the Muslims and the Polytheists, right after they broke their oath against Muslims. fighting in general, if you'd like I can talk about that in my next reply.
I haven't commented on the topic of Jizyah, because you are still talking about
By the way you do not want to read what Imam Al-Ghazali says about the verse 9:29 that I quoted.
Okay we can establish that Saudi Arabia has many Shariah type rulings.
You say that if there was an Islamic state the rulers would be placed on trial for crimes. This is absolutely false.
It also doesn't abrogate the many other verses on inequality such as this one
Early in this Surah it describes the accusation of the husband that his wife has cheated on him and it explains how the witness of the wife is above that of the husband. You still didn't show me where I made a false claim that they are equal before god. I've shown my evidence from the Qur'an.
I can go into detail about the topic of hitting women if that's what you want. I'll just leave you with the fact that prohpet Muhammad has spoken against it in several sayings.
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