Re: What doesn't science do for you?
My bad - I mis-stated what I had intended...I can see where you got this from, and I agree with you.
One can use scientific methodology to assist in making those decisions - which was my point. Far better, IMO, than religion can.
I understand what you're saying here - but to me, this argument basically says that ethics and morality are largely determined by factors that are neither scientific, nor religious in nature. Thoughts?
What says that religion is the only way to determine that?
I can only judge by myself, of course, but I would say that you're not far off of the mark. Then again, the term "sociopath" (or rather, sociopathic tendencies, is quite vague (as most psychology is), and I don't think that one can immediately leap to the conclusion that sociopathic tendencies are "bad".
No offense, but the implication that morality has to stem from religion is (probably) flat-out wrong. From what I've studied, it comes from the nature of humanity having to rely on each other in social structures to survive...religion came later. (various asteroid strikes, volcanos, and other natural disasters before humans became, well, the humans that we have now, forced our more animal-like ancestors to work together for sheer survival. What wasn't tolerated, was eliminated, so people learned to both tolerate more, and to be more amiable to behaving in an acceptable manner)
As I said, I was more referring to the Scientific Method, rather than science itself - and that was my mistake in my phrasing.
I'd be willing to bet that if you polled prison inmates, you'd find far more claiming religion than not...I haven't looked at any numbers, but I'd be curious as to how they stack up against general society. Of course, you still have to account for prisoners that broke "stupid" laws...you know, the guy that got busted smoking some pot, or the guy that jaywalked just a few too many times...you know what I mean
Only because we don't want to grant people the same right to kill us for the same reasons
As you said, Science is neither one nor t'other - Science doesn't "care". But as I should have said initially, the scientific process can be applied to most situations, and it does it better (IMO, at any rate) than religion.
Agreed.
I'm not sure I agree with this. While many of our laws are considered to have been brought forth due to the Puritans and Christians founding our nation, they were taken more from Hammurabi's laws than anything else - and THOSE "laws" are just common sense for anyone living in a social climate (don't steal, don't fuck with people, etc). IMO, if this really *were* a "Christian" nation, there would be far more infringements on our freedoms, and far more expectations of us to support the Christian church. As it is now, we just hear a lot of gum-flapping and occasionally we have to shake our heads when some school thinks that their better off dumping their science classes because they can't grasp Evolution. But I digress
Ok...now we're getting to some meat
Why do you feel that your moral compass would change as a result of not having religion? I mean, I know we have all heard the anti-Atheist movements, talking about how the streets will run red with blood and all of that...but I think that in this day and age, it's pretty patently clear that morality and ethics have very little to do with a given belief system. That's why we end up with immoral preachers, and moral Atheists - I don't believe that morality has to come from "somewhere else"...I think that if people just took a fraction of a second to say, "How would I feel if someone did this to me in this situation?" the world would be a far better place. Problem is, it seems that the vast majority of "true believers" really only believe that as long as they SAY they believe it, it makes it true (which is not very far from how religion is promoted already).
Ok...let's try to approach this from the other side: Heathenry came from somewhere...someone came up with the idea (whether man or god, for the purposes here it doesn't really matter ). I'm guessing that you haven't met the people that decided "This is Heathenry". So the rules and beliefs that you're following stem largely from people that you don't know (and can't possibly trust as a result of simply not knowing them). It logically follows that some event or something occurred at a particular time that convinced you of it's efficacy. I know that when I became Pagan, it was in part due to a phenomenally accurate cold-reading...it convinced me that there might be some truth to it. Of course, over time I started acknowledging when my religion *didn't* work, as well as when it did...and I found that it was wrong more than it was right.
Interesting read over at http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com ...I'll dig up the quote - my memory sucks
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm <-- It's a little long, feel free to skim...you'll get the gist of it
Originally posted by Wednesday
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Originally posted by Wednesday
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Why do you feel that your moral compass would change as a result of not having religion? I mean, I know we have all heard the anti-Atheist movements, talking about how the streets will run red with blood and all of that...but I think that in this day and age, it's pretty patently clear that morality and ethics have very little to do with a given belief system. That's why we end up with immoral preachers, and moral Atheists - I don't believe that morality has to come from "somewhere else"...I think that if people just took a fraction of a second to say, "How would I feel if someone did this to me in this situation?" the world would be a far better place. Problem is, it seems that the vast majority of "true believers" really only believe that as long as they SAY they believe it, it makes it true (which is not very far from how religion is promoted already).
Originally posted by Wednesday
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Interesting read over at http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com ...I'll dig up the quote - my memory sucks
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm <-- It's a little long, feel free to skim...you'll get the gist of it
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