Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

And of course it could also be said that atheists etc are making equally extraordinary claims....

Not really, no. Atheists aren't claiming things; most atheism is the lack of claim. They distinct lack of claiming that deity exists.
And even those that do make a philosophical claim of deity's non-existence are following a completely logical frame of mind. If there's no evidence for something, you can legitimately claim that it does not exist; that requires no evidence, because there's no evidence to be had.
And for those of us (including me) that have had personal religious or revelatory experiences or UPG--what counts as evidence for one person won't necessarily count as evidence for others. Especially if the others you are talking to are operating from a naturalistic and materialist perspective.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

Not really, no. Atheists aren't claiming things; most atheism is the lack of claim. They distinct lack of claiming that deity exists.
And even those that do make a philosophical claim of deity's non-existence are following a completely logical frame of mind. If there's no evidence for something, you can legitimately claim that it does not exist; that requires no evidence, because there's no evidence to be had.
And for those of us (including me) that have had personal religious or revelatory experiences or UPG--what counts as evidence for one person won't necessarily count as evidence for others. Especially if the others you are talking to are operating from a naturalistic and materialist perspective.

I can believe that someone who doesn't actually care either way isn't making any claims.... but atheists do claim that deities do not exist. So yes, in my book, that's an equally 'extraordinary' claim. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence after all.

But at the end of the day, UPG is valid for the person concerned. And that's fine by me. I've had some really weird experiences over the years.... I am willing to share them, but I fully realise that it doesn't really mean much by way of proof. I am willing to answer questions, too - no matter what the questioner's preconceived ideas happen to be. But don't put me on the rack and then try to convert me because - truth to tell - that sort of thing makes me bloody annoyed

[Louisvillian]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

but atheists do claim that deities do not exist.

Majority of them don't. Most atheists are what's defined as Soft/Weak Atheists--they simply lack belief in deity rather than believing that deity is non-existent. Some might refer to them as "agnostic atheists" but the idea is the same.
Strong or Hard Atheists, on the other hand, are anti-theists. They explicitly deny that a god or gods do not exist and claim that their non-existence is able to be established through logical deduction.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence after all.

From a logical-positivist worldview, yes it is. And that's the worldview from which Hard/Strong Atheists are coming.

But don't put me on the rack and then try to convert me because - truth to tell - that sort of thing makes me bloody annoyed

Same here. But you still have to completely understand where the other person is coming from. You have to respect their standpoint and opinions, if you want them to respect yours. And that includes understanding them and an acceptance of criticism. Religion without critique is what leads to stagnation and--in the long run--ignorance and corruption.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

I have known enough people of many walks of life to understand where they are coming from, and if I'm not sure then I'll always ask. But this stuff about strong and weak atheists.... no. Most people - in my experience - who simply can't be bothered to believe or don't care either way, (which I think you call Soft Theists, but correct me if I'm wrong) tend to describe themselves as agnostic. Calling oneself an atheist, on the other hand, implies an active decision (which I respect) to believe that there is no higher power. But don't call oneself an atheist and then start dancing around with shades of meaning.

As for telling me, 'You have to respect their standpoint and opinions, if you want them to respect yours. And that includes understanding them and an acceptance of criticism' possibly this was an unfortunately choice of pronouns, but I have always respected others and never been afraid of an interesting yet fair debate.

As for your final sentence, I think there has been plenty of theological critique over the millennia - but still we have ignorance and corruption.

[greenhead]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

"Didnt mean to imply that he should drop dead. I realize now how you would think that's what I meant. I guess I meant it more like, better you than me. Dying does not happen to be on my to do list this week."

"Best teen angst quote of the week. I would suggest giving into your angst as it might lead you in the right direction."

If you are still worked up over a month old thread which i apologized for more than once I think you need to cast some over-sensitivity spells on yourself and just move on. You shouldn't feel the need to over-explain yourself or justify your beliefs. I have nothing against you personally as I don't know you.

"I don't mind answering questions, but not when the net is cast so ridiculously wide. It does rather erode one's patience. Still, I suppose all will be revealed in due course...."

I understand what your describing, but I'm not asking you to explain anything more than you wish to write. While i take the blame for not following up, if you wanted, you could have kindly posted a super brief answer instead of these arrogant rantings.

Nice day

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

"I don't mind answering questions, but not when the net is cast so ridiculously wide. It does rather erode one's patience. Still, I suppose all will be revealed in due course...."

I understand what your describing, but I'm not asking you to explain anything more than you wish to write. While i take the blame for not following up, if you wanted, you could have kindly posted a super brief answer instead of these arrogant rantings.

Nice day

Let me see if I get this right.... you post a question, I ask for clarification, you ignore this, expect me to post a 'super brief answer' anyway, and when I mention this - in passing - you describe it as arrogant ranting????

You have no idea.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

Let's see if I get this straight.... You ask a question, I asked for clarification. You ignored this and never once returned to the thread. You still expect me however, having been ignored, to post a 'super brief answer' and when I mention this - in passing - you describe it as 'arrogant rantings.'

You really have no idea.

[thalassa]

Re: Basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist.

I understand what your describing, but I'm not asking you to explain anything more than you wish to write. While i take the blame for not following up, if you wanted, you could have kindly posted a super brief answer instead of these arrogant rantings.

Maybe you should look in the mirror on that one.

Mrs. P, whom I might add, is a long time member, and helpful one at that, and generally a quite lovely person until/unless someone gets too big for their britches, was exactly right in what she said... So sorry that you can't handle a polite dose of honesty.

This thread is now locked in the hopes that, without this thread to remind everyone of your first impression, maybe you can have the chance to make a better second one. In that regards, I would recommend two things--1) stop treating this online community like its a pagan opinion and advice vending machine and 2) look up the word tact and learn to use some--I find it very hard to believe that you are so obtuse that you couldn't possibly realize that your tone has been condescendingly obnoxious and incendiary...and if that is what you are getting back, you shouldn't be surprised.

Have a nice day,
Thalassa


ETA------if you'd bothered to look around, you would have found that there are a number of threads that would have answered your question.

ETA2-----if anyone has a specific topic in here that they want to continue as a conversation without the hubris and ego, then feel free to start a new thread

[greenhead]

Continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist thread

thalassa:

"Maybe you should look in the mirror on that one.

Mrs. P, whom I might add, is a long time member, and helpful one at that, and generally a quite lovely person until/unless someone gets too big for their britches, was exactly right in what she said... So sorry that you can't handle a polite dose of honesty.

This thread is now locked in the hopes that, without this thread to remind everyone of your first impression, maybe you can have the chance to make a better second one. In that regards, I would recommend two things--1) stop treating this online community like its a pagan opinion and advice vending machine and 2) look up the word tact and learn to use some--I find it very hard to believe that you are so obtuse that you couldn't possibly realize that your tone has been condescendingly obnoxious and incendiary...and if that is what you are getting back, you shouldn't be surprised.

Have a nice day,
Thalassa


ETA------if you'd bothered to look around, you would have found that there are a number of threads that would have answered your question.

ETA2-----if anyone has a specific topic in here that they want to continue as a conversation without the hubris and ego, then feel free to start a new thread




Response:


I didn't imply she had to respond now. Didn't know she was offended that I didn't respond in that old herb thread. Okay i wil re-structure my sentences or search posts before hand no prob. But i will not be monitored or talked down to with that tone. I still feel it was out of place for her to post public rude remarks like that.

Every post i've made for a long time on here has been positive and not critical of anything.. I do believe i've given and taken in quite a few topics and i see no problem posting threads that are consistantly questions based.

Some clearly were gossiping and bad mouthing publicly in my face which is not only rude but clearly overdoing it and being disrespectful and I responded back Sorry i can't accept being disrespected on a thread after apologizing twice over my tone and choice words of words from 2 months ago on some early threads. (which were not even intentionally disrespectful to begin with)

when someone takes it personally and attack me with rude remarks it says a lot about that person.

Its like arguing over animal or gay rights and personally attacking the other who thinks what they they believe in is wrong. Its pretty immature.

[Juniper]

Re: Continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist thread

I'm locking this topic because this is not a new discussion but a continuation of an argument in the old thread, which has been locked. If you want to respond to someone in the old thread, please do so in a private message.

ETA2-----if anyone has a specific topic in here that they want to continue as a conversation without the hubris and ego, then feel free to start a new thread

This does not mean continue an argument from a previous topic.

[thalassa]

Re: Continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from an atheist thread

Every post i've made for a long time on here has been positive and not critical of anything.. I do believe i've given and taken in quite a few topics and i see no problem posting threads that are consistantly questions based.

You've been here all of a month. That is really not a long time...by any stretch of the imagination. This forum has been around for at least 10 years, and some of our members and most of our staff have been around for most of that time. You didn't even have a reputation to lose before you stuck your foot in your mouth. So before you start telling the admins what you do or don't have a problem doing here, take a step down on the outrage, and get over your ego. This forum exists for all of its members, not just for you.

This is really the last thing I'm going to say on the matter---You aren't the first person with an attitude that has started off on the wrong foot, how it goes from here is purely up to you...and your attitude.

[greenhead]

Fina continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from from an atheist thread

"Every post i've made for a long time on here has been positive and not critical of anything.. I do believe i've given and taken in quite a few topics and i see no problem posting threads that are consistantly questions based."

You've been here all of a month. That is really not a long time...by any stretch of the imagination. This forum has been around for at least 10 years, and some of our members and most of our staff have been around for most of that time. You didn't even have a reputation to lose before you stuck your foot in your mouth. So before you start telling the admins what you do or don't have a problem doing here, take a step down on the outrage, and get over your ego. This forum exists for all of its members, not just for you.

This is really the last thing I'm going to say on the matter---You aren't the first person with an attitude that has started off on the wrong foot, how it goes from here is purely up to you...and your attitude.


Response:

It's super late to be mentioning this. Well you could have said this nearly a month ago after i posted that. If you went through my posts you would have noticed apologized more than once in a respectful manner. i'm tired of mentioning this. i'm finding these responses super awkward and unnecessary.
I don't really see a hierarchy in this matter. It's up to you and your attitude as well. You can respond kindly.

Good luck

[MaskedOne]

Re: Fina continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from from an atheist thr

Do you like getting threads locked?

This is something that should have been part of a private message instead of "lets ignore two site admins and see what happens" thread.

[Caelia]

Re: Fina continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from from an atheist thr

You know what? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt when you first came here with this attitude and others called you a troll. Now I have egg on my face. I don't like having my word or name put to such an end. I'm reporting you and blocking you.

[Caelia]

Re: Fina continuation of basic occult/pagan belief questions from from an atheist thr

And before this thread gets locked...35ctxf.jpg