Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

[MaskedOne]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

So, every Christian intimately knows their Priest or Pastor? With all of that keeping up with teh congregation, where's the time for that Priest or Pastor to actually follow through on all that praying?

It replaces sleep.

More likely, least with larger Catholic parishes, a lot of close relations with individuals fall to Deacons, Junior priests and the ****ton of religious organizations and volunteer groups that form around a sizeable parish. The actual pastor is available if you need to reach him but there are decent odds that you'll get referred to support staff so that he can handle other stuff. Won't always happen, you'll be interacting with the Pastor more often as you approach certain sacraments (Marriage being high on the list, there are pre-reqs that have to be met before the ceremony is performed) but Pastors are not above delegating matters to support staff.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I think it depends on the thing in question. Charging for services rendered, like divination, is fine. Same as charging for books. That is charging money as either compensation for time or as the retail cost for a finished product. Goods and services. I have no problem with someone making a living from this; nor do I have a problem with someone rendering such services or products for free.

But charging fees for initiation or participation is not right. Initiation is not a service, nor is working in a magic circle. It is a religious activity, with a different purpose and quality to it. It isn't an economic activity.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

But charging fees for initiation or participation is not right. Initiation is not a service, nor is working in a magic circle. It is a religious activity, with a different purpose and quality to it. It isn't an economic activity.

Religion or not, these activities require time and supplies. So unless you've found a way to get all your needs covered for free (and please share the secret) then someone has to shell out for it. I find it very odd that people seem to expect the clergy to cover those costs and are basically expecting a free ride because it's a "religious" activity.

[nbdy]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

In a word, no. People can participate in whatever economy they choose in whatever way they choose. If the person professes to be in a certain religion, then other members of that religion get to have some say in it, but only inasmuch as the mercenary advertises as a person of standing in that faith.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

In a word, no. People can participate in whatever economy they choose in whatever way they choose. If the person professes to be in a certain religion, then other members of that religion get to have some say in it, but only inasmuch as the mercenary advertises as a person of standing in that faith.

Um, what?

You think other people get to have a say in how someone goes about making money? I mean beyond deciding what they will or won't spend money on.

Unless the person is breaking the law, no one one has any standing on the subject whatsoever. Sure they can gripe and grumble, but frankly that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. And often that griping and grumbling comes off as petty and ill-thought out.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Religion or not, these activities require time and supplies. So unless you've found a way to get all your needs covered for free (and please share the secret) then someone has to shell out for it..

In which case, the members of that group ought to provide donations and keep a common treasury (depending on the size of the group or community) as a matter of good will and practical sense. But I stop short of mandating fees for religious gatherings. It's the difference between a tithe and voluntary donations. But that's really just me; I would stop short of such things and not participate with a group that charged fees for participating in, say, a Sabbat circle. They can do whatever they want; just don't expect me to agree with them or comply with such demands.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

In which case, the members of that group ought to provide donations and keep a common treasury (depending on the size of the group or community) as a matter of good will and practical sense.

Ought to doesn't mean will and having had this experience first hand, I have NO PROBLEM setting a fee. What was my experience? I ran a serious of "how to spell cast" work shops. They were well attended and and I just asked for donations. Of a 14 member class, donations amounted to.....Dun Dun DA!!!! $4.85. I couldn't even cover the cost of the pens I supplied, never mind anything else.

Another time we tried a SUGGESTED donation to cover the rental of a hall for Imbolc. If everyone there HAD given the suggested donation ($5) we would have covered rental with ease. As it is, the organizers were left to cover the remaining $50 themselves.

It's really hard to stay motivated when it feels like you're being taken for granted. Even harder when you have problems putting gas in your tank because you have to cover the costs of other people's participation. So no, I have no problem with flat rates and upfront fees.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Ought to doesn't mean will and having had this experience first hand, I have NO PROBLEM setting a fee. What was my experience? I ran a serious of "how to spell cast" work shops. They were well attended and and I just asked for donations. Of a 14 member class, donations amounted to.....Dun Dun DA!!!! $4.85. I couldn't even cover the cost of the pens I supplied, never mind anything else.

Another time we tried a SUGGESTED donation to cover the rental of a hall for Imbolc. If everyone there HAD given the suggested donation ($5) we would have covered rental with ease. As it is, the organizers were left to cover the remaining $50 themselves.

It's really hard to stay motivated when it feels like you're being taken for granted. Even harder when you have problems putting gas in your tank because you have to cover the costs of other people's participation. So no, I have no problem with flat rates and upfront fees.

Yes - so many people worry about whether it's right to charge.
Nobody seems to worry half as much about the dodgers!

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Here is how I read this topic, "Do you think it's right to charge to teach?" What comes after seems irrelevant, doesn't it? Teachers get paid to teach, or they aren't teachers, their volunteers... While volunteerism is awesome, not anyone at all should be told it is what they have to be.
I don't think it is right to scam anyone, but you don't really know if you are going to be scammed until after it happens or it wouldn't happen, would it? But as far as making sure you don't get scammed, there are all sorts of places online where people report scammers, and it definately helps to do a little research first. That is the best you can do!

[nbdy]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Um, what?

You think other people get to have a say in how someone goes about making money? I mean beyond deciding what they will or won't spend money on.

Unless the person is breaking the law, no one one has any standing on the subject whatsoever. Sure they can gripe and grumble, but frankly that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. And often that griping and grumbling comes off as petty and ill-thought out.

Well, actually, that should read "In a word, yes." This should be evident by the remainder of my post, but I was too late to edit it by the time I noticed. The only people who would have any say in the matter, as I stated, would be others in a particular religion that was advertised as the source of the person's expertise. So, for example, if a Wiccan High Priest wanted to charge for services as a Wiccan High Priest, then others in that religion would have some say in what can and cannot be charged for which services since this reflects on the religion as a whole.

[Gardenia]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

So, for example, if a Wiccan High Priest wanted to charge for services as a Wiccan High Priest, then others in that religion would have some say in what can and cannot be charged for which services since this reflects on the religion as a whole.

Wiccans can hardly even agree on what Wicca is most of the time, I can't imagine you could get most Wiccans to agree on if payment is okay or not... And without any sort of central authority, council, or anything like that, how would it even be decided? I can absolutely guarantee you that some Wiccans will think payment is fine, and others will not, so what happens in that situation?

Such an approach may work for individual covens/groups, or larger traditions that have some sort of 'government,' so to speak, but when looking at something as large and diverse as Wicca, and many other pagan groups... it just wouldn't work. There'd be no real way to come to an agreement on the matter.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

So, for example, if a Wiccan High Priest wanted to charge for services as a Wiccan High Priest, then others in that religion would have some say in what can and cannot be charged for which services since this reflects on the religion as a whole.

And how are they going to go about ENFORCING their "say"? Do you see the problem here? Having a "say" is meaningless unless there is a way to enforce it. If there isn't, then it's not "having a say" but just general pissing and moaning, which every person has a right to do and the rest of us have a right to ignore.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Wiccans can hardly even agree on what Wicca is most of the time, I can't imagine you could get most Wiccans to agree on if payment is okay or not... And without any sort of central authority, council, or anything like that, how would it even be decided? I can absolutely guarantee you that some Wiccans will think payment is fine, and others will not, so what happens in that situation?

Such an approach may work for individual covens/groups, or larger traditions that have some sort of 'government,' so to speak, but when looking at something as large and diverse as Wicca, and many other pagan groups... it just wouldn't work. There'd be no real way to come to an agreement on the matter.

^ This. Wicca doesn't have enough organization to set standard pricing or even remotely consider enforcing it. Specific sects might be able to but Wicca as a whole, no.

[Juniper]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I think one of the biggest factors for teachers to decide whether or not they charge for their teaching is not necessarily WHAT they're teaching, but WHERE.

I've touched on this before in this topic (I think it was this one). In my particular path, you encounter both. Those who teach for free and those who teach at a price. Those who teach for free do it because they a) teach the locals of their town/tribe and usually have free living and food arrangements, b) are self sufficient, c) those who want to learn travel to them, or d) any combination of A-C.
Those who teach for a price, more often than not, do it because they live in the modern world where Time = Money. They have to pay for their bills somehow. And not just THEIR bills, but they have to pay for the room rental of where they teach and the materials (if any) supplied.

I can almost guarantee you that the people who teach in the modern world and do not charge a fee probably have some other means of income or support system. But in this economy? Phat chance.

Another thing to consider. What value does the teacher place on the content? They could have spent decades building up the knowledge base of what they are teaching. It's not always up the consumer to decide what something is valued at. Sure they influence the price, because after all, if it's too high then no one will buy. But ultimately, it's the teacher's choice.

[nbdy]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Wiccans can hardly even agree on what Wicca is most of the time, I can't imagine you could get most Wiccans to agree on if payment is okay or not... And without any sort of central authority, council, or anything like that, how would it even be decided? I can absolutely guarantee you that some Wiccans will think payment is fine, and others will not, so what happens in that situation?

Such an approach may work for individual covens/groups, or larger traditions that have some sort of 'government,' so to speak, but when looking at something as large and diverse as Wicca, and many other pagan groups... it just wouldn't work. There'd be no real way to come to an agreement on the matter.

Both you and Vigdisdotter make a valid point -- I do not know enough about Wicca to understand how it is structured but simply assumed that the laity would have some influence over the clergy who serve them. In protestantism, the minister can simply be removed by parishioners, voted off the island, if you will. If the behavior is bad enough s/he can be expelled from the denominational organization. I am having difficulty believing that any group is helpless before any single priest or priestess. Call some one else.