Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

[thalassa]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

The Christian God, as described in the Bible is a complete monster and I wouldn't trust people who take the Bible literally for half a second.

No one should take any mythology literally, but big G, little -od of the Bible isn't alone in being a jackass.

Zeus is a rapist...so is Poseidon, Hades, Apollo, and just about every other Greek God. And lest we leave out the ladies, Athena was a bitch who made a habit of turning women into monsters for minor transgressions, Aphrodite would do just about anything to have someone say she was pretty...including start wars, drive folks insane, drive folks insane and then to their deaths, drive folks insane and then to kill others. If you look at other pantheons, they aren't exactly stuffed to the gills with fine, upright examples of compassionate kindness either (sure, they all have a god or goddess or two that are, but even then, those individual deities often have some skellys in their mythological closets).

Gods aren't monsters. They are a reflection of the better and worst parts of humanity.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

Plus that whole joyous affair known as Pandora's box...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

Gotta love Prometheus, though...

'Course, he was the bad guy.

[Ektor]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

No one should take any mythology literally, but big G, little -od of the Bible isn't alone in being a jackass.

Gods aren't monsters. They are a reflection of the better and worst parts of humanity.

True that; but many people seem to take Christian mythology literally. As I stated, that's what I have a problem with: people who think every line of the Bible is an unquestionable objective truth. There are many, many, many people like that over here and it's really not nice.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

Gods aren't monsters. They are a reflection of the better and worst parts of humanity.

And, lest we forget, the stories about them are stories made by people. They reflect the culture and society they come from just as much as they reflect the gods' personalities. And I hesitate to declare in loud tones that our culture is significantly better (or worse). It's a completely different time period, and we are surrounded by a completely different situation.

[Ektor]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

I agree with that too. Religion and culture are inseparable.

[feathered_regalia]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

Fighting over a religious issue... Religion is a red herring. What people really want is control. Religious wars started because the leader in charge knew if they picked the one thing the entire country believed in (their religion) they could get their people to rally behind them when they decided they wanted that tract of land over there. And if some invisible force that no one could question but everyone believed in said so, then who would challenge their leader? After all, who were they to challenge their god or gods' decisions? They didn't have a military backing them to give them the balls to say their king or czar or what have you was wrong. So religion amounted to great personal freedom for whoever was in charge.

Now, anyone who uses religion as a form of attack, doesn't care about spiritual freedom. They care about personal freedom, which is ironic. Because you can't have personal freedom when you're trying to control everyone else. And there can never be spiritual freedom when you persecute in the name of religion.

In my opinion, organizing faith into a structure is a way to make everyone believe the same thing, which inhibits free thought. Of course, there is a lot of safety in this. If you know that your neighbor believes that murder is wrong, for example, you don't worry about getting killed in your sleep. It keeps things peaceful. Persecuting others in the name of your religion is the dark side of the same school of reasoning. They don't believe what we believe across the border, so they might come and kill us in our sleep. So, let's get the jump on them. Simple thought processes with potentially catastrophic consequences.

[LTW]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

A lot of people today seem to believe that tolerance is one ended. It isn't. In order to expect tolerance for yourself, you have to give tolerance, too. People that seem to believe that pagans have some sort of obligation to be either tolerant, or not tolerant of Christians are still wrong, in my opinion. Both of them. There are no preconceived rules on whether we should or should not.

I do not expect any kind of acceptance from anyone. As a result, I also maintain the view that I don't owe anyone else acceptance, either. I accept what I see and view as rational and logical. I don't accept anything that could be considered "woo woo" or not logical or rational. This goes for Christians or any other group of people.

What I do "accept", without fail, is another person's right to believe and say whatever they wish. But, that doesn't obligate me in any way to accept their view as valid anywhere else but in their own lives and minds.

Do I expect other people who live pagan lives to think the same as I do? No.

[thalassa]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

A lot of people today seem to believe that tolerance is one ended. It isn't. In order to expect tolerance for yourself, you have to give tolerance, too. People that seem to believe that pagans have some sort of obligation to be either tolerant, or not tolerant of Christians are still wrong, in my opinion. Both of them. There are no preconceived rules on whether we should or should not.

I do not expect any kind of acceptance from anyone. As a result, I also maintain the view that I don't owe anyone else acceptance, either. I accept what I see and view as rational and logical. I don't accept anything that could be considered "woo woo" or not logical or rational. This goes for Christians or any other group of people.

I disagree with the idea that accepance and tolerance are equal words--they don't mean the same thing, and they can't stand in for one another. Based on what you've said, and how you've said it (which might not have been your intent), it reads to me like you do consider them to be the same.

...I don't accept that, but I do tolerate your point of view.

Which is as it should be. In a society that honors and values the right to free expression, we DO have an obligation for tolerance. We "owe" one another the freedom to their own beliefs and thoughts and expressions (unless they violate the rights of others). But we don't have an obligation for acceptance--I don't have to like what you do, I don't have to take it on for myself, I'm not obligated to be silend about my dislike of it. The mistake that too many people make is in thiking that "tolerance" means that criticism is off limits. Tolerance isn't about the absence of critique, its about the absence of harassment and discrimination and ridicule.

Or, my favorite quote on the subject:

True tolerance means looking differences squarely in the eye and admitting the appalling fact that when other people seem to differ from us, this is because they actually believe their view of the world to be true. It is an occupational hazard of pluralism that we must live alongside people who differ from us. This gives rise to discomfort, displeasure, fear, and even anger. Civilization asks that, at such times, we refrain from drawing swords. It requires that we continue to draw distinctions.

~From the article, "Voices of the New Generation" by Elizabeth Kristol, The New York Times, Sept. 25, 1989.

[anunitu]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

I really like that quote Thal...

[LTW]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

I disagree with the idea that accepance and tolerance are equal words--they don't mean the same thing, and they can't stand in for one another. Based on what you've said, and how you've said it (which might not have been your intent), it reads to me like you do consider them to be the same.

...I don't accept that, but I do tolerate your point of view.

I agree, fundamentally, but actually from my experience they have been considered one and the same for years in paganism. Many, many people believe that true tolerance is acceptance and vice versa. To articulate that you tolerate that person's viewpoint, but you don't accept as it as valid, is a big faux pas in the mainstream community. It's even like that in things like politics, etc. Accepting someone's views politically equals tolerating them to most. That's why I prefer to say that I respect a person's right to think one way, but that I do not accept the view. Because the word, tolerance, has become synonymous with "acceptance".

[anunitu]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

In truth we all follow our dreams of what we perceive to be truth,if it makes sense or not is not really the "core" but that "WE" find some solace in a dream that helps us "survive" in a world that sometimes seems "MAD"

I care not about your dream,for I have found my own dream to play in.

Original thought by me.

[Gleb]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

Everyone has his / her own reality and belief system, though some things don't change because of it. Our world's rules of nature, for example.

Some people know they can't change other people's view on the world and act with hate towards one or some groups of humans with a different opinion.
Others just don't try to change anything and accept the multi-faith world as long as long as there there is peace among people. <-- I am one of them.
In fact, I consider the multi-faith world really interesting.

[Dahll Haus]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

I believe Mr. Garrison summed it up best: Tolerance means you have to put up with it. If you had to like it it would be acceptance.

[Ektor]

Re: Paganism and Religious Tolerance.

I like to think of Hellenism in things like this. When Alexander conquered Iran, he kind of merged his own gods with the local deities, same happened in Roman Gaul. Pagan religions have a syncretic nature if you look at history.