Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

[Nalia]

Morning folks!! So as some of you know I have just recently started on finding my path. I've started my path with an interest in tarot. From there things expanded and went into all different areas of study of other forms of divination, Kabbalah, witchcraft etc. Granted I'm pretty much still a noob at all of this, but one reoccurring theme in some of my studies based in witchcraft is that it and Wicca are the same. Mr. Raymond Buckland seem to use the word interchangeably. For some reason, I don't think they are the same. I think that Wicca is a religion, in its own right, incorporating witchcraft into its practices. I believe you can practice witchcraft without believing necessarily in a god/dess. But then again my knowledge on the subject isn't really broad. :=L: So that brings us to now. It's been bugging me for a couple of days now and I want your opinion on it.

Do you think that witchcraft is synonymous with Wicca and is a religion or do you believe it to be a craft outside the binds of a belief in a higher power?

Please be detailed in your answer if at all possible, so to help those reading to understand your point of view. :^^: Any and all information, comments, and suggestions are welcomed, but PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE! HEALTHY DEBATE ONLY!! IF SOMETHING SAID OFFENDS YOU, FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR PRECIOUS HEART, PLEASE CLOSE THE PAGE/TAB ASAP! DO NOT RESPOND ANGRILY!! So far those that I have met here are pretty mature let's just keep that going. :angel:

[Medusa]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Well let's look at the word. It's not WiccaCraft. It's Witch Craft. The crafts of a witch. Which witch? Any Witch. I mean Satanism has witches. I would be considered a Satanic Witch. I practice the craft of witching in the Satanic realm of things. Kitchen witch. Hedge Witch. All kinds of them. Witches have been around since before the bible and it wasn't Wicca back then. So yeah. Witch doesn't mean Wicca etc.

[Nalia]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Well let's look at the word. It's not WiccaCraft. It's Witch Craft. The crafts of a witch. Which witch? Any Witch. I mean Satanism has witches. I would be considered a Satanic Witch. I practice the craft of witching in the Satanic realm of things. Kitchen witch. Hedge Witch. All kinds of them. Witches have been around since before the bible and it wasn't Wicca back then. So yeah. Witch doesn't mean Wicca etc.

I agree, but there are some that would argue that the word itself comes from it. That "Wicce" "Wicca" "Witch" are all the same or rather derivatives of a same point.

So personal question Medusa. What do you do when you "witch" in the satanic realms? Like I'm really curious. Also what would be your definition of "Witch"?

[Medusa]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Anton LaVey put out a book called 'The Satanic Witch'. It talked about how you use certain knowledge and mindset to 'bend' the natural uncontrollable world toward you. I learned how to use psychology on men (which is my interest. You can use it on whatever gender you are attracted to I guess). How to use scent, sight, aural cues to move things in my direction. In another world it would be called 'a woman's way) but I'm more direct. I use manipulation to move obstacles and people I detest out of my way. And witchcraft is that route. Of course he called it Bitchcraft. And no, I'm not even joking!

[Nalia]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Anton LaVey put out a book called 'The Satanic Witch'. It talked about how you use certain knowledge and mindset to 'bend' the natural uncontrollable world toward you. I learned how to use psychology on men (which is my interest. You can use it on whatever gender you are attracted to I guess). How to use scent, sight, aural cues to move things in my direction. In another world it would be called 'a woman's way) but I'm more direct. I use manipulation to move obstacles and people I detest out of my way. And witchcraft is that route. Of course he called it Bitchcraft. And no, I'm not even joking!

hahahaha. That's awesome! I will have to read that book next. I like the pink cover edition. ^_^

Do you practice any other witchery?

[Torey]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

A great question and one that has certainly been popular amidst Neo-Pagan circles. Like Medusa, my practice would also be considered Satanic witchcraft - although I rarely refer to myself as a "witch".

I agree, but there are some that would argue that the word itself comes from it. That "Wicce" "Wicca" "Witch" are all the same or rather derivatives of a same point.

Well, yes. The Old English word "wicca" referred to a male witch specifically. Gerald Gardner's Wicca took its name form the term, most assuredly. But Wicca was introduced as a religion with a particular set of beliefs and practices - which distinguishes it from the generic practice of non-specific witchcraft.

For instance, there is British Traditional Witchcraft which has nothing to do with Wicca, but which uses the term "witchcraft" as well.

I always think of it as this - all of Wicca is witchcraft, but not all witchcraft is Wicca.

[thalassa]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Luckily, I don't think you will find many of us getting up in arms over this topic...

Do you think that witchcraft is synonymous with Wicca and is a religion or do you believe it to be a craft outside the binds of a belief in a higher power?

Absolutely not---witchcraft (little-w) is not synonymous with Wicca, though Witchcraft (with a capital W) *can be* because of historical precedent. Whether or not this a factual claim or technically correct, it is still an actual practice.

Wicca was created by Gerald Gardner in the 1930's and 40's from a myriad of sources, including the New Forest coven. Wicca (though its name is based on the same Old English word that became "witch", shared etymological origins aren't evidence for same-ness)* is a specific religion based on the idea of what Gerald Gardner thought was a surviving remnants of a religion of Witchcraft from the (now largely debunked) ideas of Margaret Murray. Old school Wiccans (trained by Gardner or his immediate students were taught that Wicca *is* Witchcraft (with a capital W)) and later authors down the line often use the terms witch and Wicca interchangeably, because they were (or still are) working under Gardner’s (and similar) claim to a pre-existing witchcraft tradition which Gardner et al was privy to. His claims of being initiated into this tradition, and the claims that Wicca was a survivor of this tradition, led to the idea and use of the two terms being interchangeable…an assumption which has no real academic basis, but has been commonly found in the lexicon of the Pagan community for quite some time (a habit I am happy to say has been on the decline over the years).

Witchcraft (little-w)* is an umbrella term for a series of magical practices which includes as divination, spell casting, contacting or channeling spirits, journying, making amulets or talismans, etc. It is a practice or set of practices that can be practiced with a religion (ANY religion) or alone or (in the case of Wicca) as the basis for a religion. And with that being said, while you can be a witch and not be Wiccan, you can't be a Wiccan that isn't a Witch (because the very practice of Wicca is its own form of witchcraft)...sort of like a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square....there's a reason why Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca are also called British Traditional Witchcraft...


*Gramatically speaking, witchcraft (not the Wiccan kind) is like skipping rope or going to the movies...its not a proper noun. Witchcraft (when used synonomyously with Wicca) on the other hand, is a proper noun...hence the capitalization. I practice witchcraft...but if I practiced a named tradition of witchcraft, it would be capitalized there too--like 1734 Witchcraft, etc.

[Noir]

if you choose to make it religious, or unless you join a religion that utilizes it as a base practice.

[Nalia]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Like Medusa, my practice would also be considered Satanic witchcraft

That picture of yours explains it all too well.

I always think of it as this - all of Wicca is witchcraft, but not all witchcraft is Wicca.

Good advice. I will keep that in mind, also.

I practice witchcraft...but if I practiced a named tradition of witchcraft, it would be capitalized there too--like 1734 Witchcraft, etc.

So what exactly is Witchcraft (capital-W)? Do you have any links or books I should check out?

Thanks for the explanation. Very insightful.

Makes sense. Thx. ^_^

[SleepingCompass]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

[QUOTE=Nalia;171020]So what exactly is Witchcraft (capital-W)? Do you have any links or books I should check out? /QUOTE]

I can't think of any books for the capital-W, but for the little-w, I have been finding the The Inner Temple of Witchcraft - Magick, Meditation and Psychic Development, by Christopher Penczak, to be a very good book on this subject. I haven't finished it yet, but so far I've been finding it to be a wonderful introduction to a lot of the more common practices of witchcraft (magickal mind, meditation, defense, chakras, auras, various energy work, healing, etc.) with great exercises that have really helped me personally in certain areas.

I don't know what this book's standing is in the community, so maybe others on here might disagree with me, but I wish I had read this book back when I was first starting out and I plan to read the others in the series as well.

Another book that focused more on the little-w of witchcraft that I remember being particularly good was the The Elements of Ritual, by Deborah Lipp. It's technically a wiccan book, but I think anyone who uses circle casting in their practice would find this book useful. I remember wishing I had read it earlier on too as it really helped me understand the mechanics of creating a circle.

Again, I don't know this book's standing in the community, but I really liked it.

There's also a thread that is just book recommendations.

[Nalia]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Oh wow. Thank you for the recommendations Sleeping Compass. These books will be going on my reading list. ^_^

[thalassa]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

So what exactly is Witchcraft (capital-W)? Do you have any links or books I should check out?

1734 Witchcraft is a named witchcraft tradition, and (lineaged) Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca is commonly called BTW (British Traditional Witchcraft), sometimes you will see "Traditional Witchcraft", a moniker applied to a number of wildly different practices that generally claim to be based on pre-Wiccan (generally) European witchcraft, Green Witchcraft (a la Ann Moura)...



As far as books on witchcraft for witches go (in general)...

The Circle Within by Diane Sylvan, Ritual by Emma Restall Orr (she's actually a Druid and its from that perspective, but its a great book), Crafting a Daily Practice by T. Thorne Coyle, The Magical Properties of Plants (and How to Find Them) by Tylluan Penry, and Keeping a Nature Journal: Discover a Whole New Way of Seeing the World Around You by Clare Walker Leslie...plus any local field guide you can get your hands on....and books on your local ecosystem and history, neuroscience, anthropology, biology, geology, sociology, psychology, mythology, religion, etc.

[SleepingCompass]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

Oh wow. Thank you for the recommendations Sleeping Compass. These books will be going on my reading list. ^_^

I'm glad I could help!


- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and Thalassa also mentioned an author on her list, Tylluan Penry, who, besides being a member on here, also has a wonderful youtube channel filled with great witchcraft videos!

[kalynraye]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

[QUOTE=Torey;170753 I always think of it as this - all of Wicca is witchcraft, but not all witchcraft is Wicca.[/QUOTE]

This right here!!!! My teacher taught me that exact same way. Except his message was all Wiccans are Pagan but not all Pagans are Wiccians, and he was an Alexandrian.

[Carlin]

Re: Witchcraft: A practice or religion?

I've been told that the words Wicca and witchcraft started to be used interchangeably when Wicca went over to America - Wicca being a more acceptable, less controversial term. A few American authors whose books I've read use it that way.

But I was taught that witchcraft is a craft, not a religion, and Wicca is a religion that utilises witchcraft.