Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

[thalassa]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Christianity developed as an offshoot of Judaism. Judaism (a contemporary of ancient pagan religion) developed from another pagan religion. At best, all of contemporary Paganism (unless one is practicing one of the few surviving pagan religions) is about 70-80 years old. Even if one is a strict reconstructionist, the sheer fact of being a modern human being makes it a modern religion--you can't ever go back and recreate the ecological and cultural conditions that recreate the mindset of an original practitioner. So, being that historical pagan religions are contemporaries of both Christianity and the religions it evolved from AND contemporary Paganisms are as new (or old) as newer Christian denominations, I'd just look at them pityingly, shake my head, and tell them they don't know what they are talking about.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Truthfully I do not worry about it. My beliefs do not need approval or confirmation from another to make them proper or correct. They meet my needs and requirements and that is what is important to me. If the question where to bother me, then in my mind, that would suggest I have doubts about my beliefs not about their confirmation or approval of it. Figure I can find a whole lot of other topics to discuss or argue if I follow that course.

[Gleb]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Paganism is never outdated, paganism is classic. Classic things never die or stop being popular.

[Eofor]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

As thalassa said, "I'd just look at them pityingly, shake my head, and tell them they don't know what they are talking about".

If someone says something like "paganism is outdated" or "your religion is dead", you shouldn't spend your time trying to open their mind. It's clearly offensive and the person obviously doesn't care about you - or your religion. Just let it go.

[Threshold]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

I've never had anyone tell me my religion is outdated, but I've had lots of people say it's not valid because it's NOT old. They say that there are next to no real surviving pagan religions. They died out and that some pathetic people try to reconstruct them but they are just kidding themselves, etc etc.

Modern new fangled garbage, for people who refuse to accept their time is dead and gone.

I worship the Sun, but apparently that's not old enough for them, lol.

Mostly I don't get into it with them.

[Näre]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

I worship the Sun, but apparently that's not old enough for them, lol.

I love this.

To anyone who whines about Paganism being too new, I'd suggest taking a look at the most deluded parts of New Age beliefs.

[AntonBRaxas]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Most of the time I hear that "Paganism is just a fad" and that "eventually it will die out soon as a trend." I like to mention to the same people that the same thing was said about horseless carriages, moving pictures and television.

I also had no clue that Paganism was a trend.

[Briton]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Well, there is a difference between a fad and a trend. A trend is just an observed pattern, nothing derogatory or fleeting about a trend. For example it took thousands of years for the trend of using bronze over stone to become effectively absolute.

Paganism isn't itself a trend (it certainly isn't a fad), the trend is that a few generations of people have been building inertia to say "actually, we don't want to be a part of the predominant just because 1400 years ago the King became Christian (almost definitely for the purposes of political alliances with Europe) and woe betide anyone who doesn't follow suite as the Christian Church" has now become a force to reckoned with. Why do we think the common people protected the cunning folk during the burning times? Because they had been convinced that witches as the Church portrayed existed but they had never met them, but the magic they were familiar with, and no doubt it was magic, was benevolent. They knew these practitioners were not bad guys so protected them, these REAL practitioners of magic. Deep down, people are not THAT sold with Christianity and this remains today. There has always been lingering paganism and the trend is that it is gaining on a decrepit religion. They're just intimidated. Either by conviction from their religion, or by how little they know and understand what you are and why you are it.

If people try and imply your heathery is invalid then just laugh heartily and get rid of them. They are already decided in their ignorance and did not invite you to inform them, don't give them what they don't want anyway.

[sionnach]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

While pagan beliefs cannot become outdated as long as there are those still believe, the word pagan has become a problem from my experiences. I was in a different forum for a while in which I wanted to discuss with others about pagan beliefs when I ran into a problem the moment I asked what belief pagans had in common. The result of what I perceived as a simple starting point was answered in a hail of defense posts that there were no beliefs common to pagans. The consciences was that it pagan religions were not Abrahamic (although there was no problem in mixing the religions) in beliefs but beyond this paganism hand no common connection other than the right to believe in whatever you want to. Paganism was in this forum defined more on what it was not. There were no connecting belief other than the right to individual religions. Taken to the extreme this makes the word paganism equate to individual beliefs as long as they were not primarily Abrahamic in origin. This can dilute the meaning of the word paganism to the point that it has no meaning and in that sense it could become outdated. I personally disagree with this trend and feel there is common beliefs that have drawn me and others to describe ourselves as pagan and that from its beginnings paganism has had tolerance to differences but still had common beliefs that connect to people together.

[CrystalJackal]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Huh, really? Wierd. Most of the time people tell me my gods are too old and it's a dead religion or some other crap. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Bacab]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

Well, there is a difference between a fad and a trend. A trend is just an observed pattern, nothing derogatory or fleeting about a trend. For example it took thousands of years for the trend of using bronze over stone to become effectively absolute.

Paganism isn't itself a trend (it certainly isn't a fad), the trend is that a few generations of people have been building inertia to say "actually, we don't want to be a part of the predominant just because 1400 years ago the King became Christian (almost definitely for the purposes of political alliances with Europe) and woe betide anyone who doesn't follow suite as the Christian Church" has now become a force to reckoned with. Why do we think the common people protected the cunning folk during the burning times? Because they had been convinced that witches as the Church portrayed existed but they had never met them, but the magic they were familiar with, and no doubt it was magic, was benevolent. They knew these practitioners were not bad guys so protected them, these REAL practitioners of magic. Deep down, people are not THAT sold with Christianity and this remains today. There has always been lingering paganism and the trend is that it is gaining on a decrepit religion. They're just intimidated. Either by conviction from their religion, or by how little they know and understand what you are and why you are it.

If people try and imply your heathery is invalid then just laugh heartily and get rid of them. They are already decided in their ignorance and did not invite you to inform them, don't give them what they don't want anyway.

Just so you know, the cunning folk were never persecuted by Church authorities, and they thesmselves were Christians, even devout ones, not any sort of pagan. In fact, Brian Pavlac says something very interesting about Christianity and the use of witchcraft and magic: "Christianity did discourage magic, including that of numerous cunning-folk. Contrary to expectation, hunters rarely focused their hostility and justice on these cunning-acts. Wise-women coexisted with the dominant Christian ideology both before and after the age of the hunts. Their “Low Magic” of petty charms and spells hardly threatened society with collapse. Similarly, Christian authorities could disapprove of pretentious Renaissance wizards and sorcerers who played with the “High Magic” of grimoires and spell books, trying to raise demons and control nature. Yet again, these higher classed intellectuals rarely drew ire and retribution for their fruitless tinkering with the metaphysical. When either of these two groups did come under scrutiny, religious leaders often treated these sinners with preaching, prayer, and penance, showing Christian grace and mercy. Witchcraft could have likewise been treated with similar leniency or benign neglect." (Witch Hunts in the Western World : Persecution and Punishment From the Inquisition Through the Salem Trials, p. 188)

Also, it should be noticed that cultures considered "pagan" in this site like those of Mesopotamia also disapproved of witchcraft and magic and could persecute witches. You should read Daniel Schwemer's book "Corpus of Mesopotamian Anti-Witchcraft Rituals" to see how persecution and suspicion of witches is also something "pagan".

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Responses to the "Paganism is Outdated" Argument

That is very interesting...