Reality of gods vs reality of experience

[Medusa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

When something starts off with 'god by definition' all is lost. Who's definition? Don't get me started.

[Azvanna]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

For me I think of the divine in sort of the same light I think of rods.

I only know of a rod as a long skinny stick. Is there another meaning or is this a typo?

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

The "rods" he is talking about are the images of flying insects caught in film or digital photography. I have seen examples of the phenomena caught at the same time with a very high speed camera and a longer exposure with a "normal" speed camera. The normal speed camera shows an object that appears to be a longish corkscrew object darting through the air. The object caught on the high speed film is easily identifiable as a flying bug. All you need to catch the rods is a dark spot, a bright light and a camera.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

The "rods" he is talking about are the images of flying insects caught in film or digital photography. I have seen examples of the phenomena caught at the same time with a very high speed camera and a longer exposure with a "normal" speed camera. The normal speed camera shows an object that appears to be a longish corkscrew object darting through the air. The object caught on the high speed film is easily identifiable as a flying bug. All you need to catch the rods is a dark spot, a bright light and a camera.

That is one of the explanations i've heard. Seen some of the results of the bee and fly rods that have been captured or the refraction of light through a corrupt lens. Unfortunately it didn't hold true to the ones they captured on film in South America. Can't think of the name of the crater it was filmed against now but I seem to recall it was one of the holy sacrifice sites being explored. But then I admit it's been some time since I read or watched anything on those so things might have changed.

But either way it still falls into the notion of things being present with us that pass un-noticed within our vision. From the audio recordings that went with them it even passes outside the audio range of our hearing. The analyst / scientist in me says that there are a lot of possibilities that yet exist we simply can not verify or potentially even consider with our current technology.

[Briton]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

The reality.

There has never been proof of a single living unicorn with a rainbow horn who poops marshmallow rainbow poop. And every sane person when pushed to ask if unicorns are real (not what do you really really wish with all your rainbowbrite heart) will say no. Duh.

There have never been proof of a single living deity.

But you want me to believe it, why again?

Most pagans don't appear to proselytize. If one isn't interested in expecting you to believe and accept, does it really matter?

You also said 'a single living deity'. Do deities live? That aside, your question rests on the premise that I want others to believe as I do, or that anyone outside of a obligating religion does.

[Medusa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

Most pagans don't appear to proselytize. If one isn't interested in expecting you to believe and accept, does it really matter?

You also said 'a single living deity'. Do deities live? That aside, your question rests on the premise that I want others to believe as I do, or that anyone outside of a obligating religion does.

My bad. When I refer to 'you' and don't post a quote of a particular post, I'm just throwing it out as the general 'you' in space. No one particular.

As for the questions.
I'm an atheist living in a theistic world. Everyone wants me to follow their myths.

The word living. Palease for the love of Satan. Let's not do semantics. It drives me bonkers. You get the gist.

[magusphredde]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

The reality of it is ... If they don't have a 20 ounce mocha with a shot of macadamia in it for me I ain't going ...

[Briton]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

My bad. When I refer to 'you' and don't post a quote of a particular post, I'm just throwing it out as the general 'you' in space. No one particular.

As for the questions.
I'm an atheist living in a theistic world. Everyone wants me to follow their myths.

The word living. Palease for the love of Satan. Let's not do semantics. It drives me bonkers. You get the gist.

I thought you were playing semantics when you asked what defines a deity/god? :P but seriously I do think its important. We agree you mean a dynamic, conscious and independent entity, natural or not?

[thalassa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I thought you were playing semantics when you asked what defines a deity/god? :P but seriously I do think its important. We agree you mean a dynamic, conscious and independent entity, natural or not?

""God is" kiddo...anything after that is personal preference--god is one or many or not at all. It doesn't matter because god is whatever you need it to be" --quote from Thalassa's late Grandfather.

There is no such thing as a good definition of god...its one of those ideas that requires a polythetic classification system, at best. But really, its such an amorphous and ambiguous idea that varies from culture to culture and time period to time period and individual to individual as to be meaningless.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

Let me put this on the table, friends. I think it will sum up some of what has been going on here:

I have had personal experience with "gods" who actually, physically entered my life. They spoke to me, they guided my hands while ?I worked, they told me things about processes (in metalwork) that would have taken me months to figure out by myself. They were real.

I was also on a "manic" run at the time. I'm pretty sure the gods were some of my crazy leaking out

Anybody can experience the physical presence of a god. Drugs, mental illness, a "vision quest," deep meditation/prayer, and many other techniques will work. Being crazy is not required, but it does help.

But none of these experiences will tell anybody if the gods are real, or if they are fragments of the unconscious acting independently (autonomous psychic projections), or some kind of mixture of those things.

Ultimately, one's decision - are they real - will be based on one's culture, one's present beliefs, one's history, what is going on around the person, and a whole gob of other stuff. But with the exception of the kind of evidence that science requires...

The question: "does God exist?" is unanswerable in any way other that with an opinion.

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I've come up with a definitive reasoning for the existence of the divine. Look around you, at all the strange looking folks you see every day. Do you really think that a bunch of molecules floating around would have the sense of humor to make people look like that? And added to that, it's obvious that alcohol was created long before mankind discovered it as well. Take that same divine power. You'd have to be drunk to think about slapping a duck's face onto a weasel's body, then sticking some snake fangs and venom sacks to the same critter's paws.

[Briton]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I've come up with a definitive reasoning for the existence of the divine. Look around you, at all the strange looking folks you see every day. Do you really think that a bunch of molecules floating around would have the sense of humor to make people look like that? And added to that, it's obvious that alcohol was created long before mankind discovered it as well. Take that same divine power. You'd have to be drunk to think about slapping a duck's face onto a weasel's body, then sticking some snake fangs and venom sacks to the same critter's paws.

They also don't have a stomach, just to add to the what-the-cluckery.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

They have no mammary glands but exude the milk for their young through the skin. It collects in folds of the skin and the babies lap it up like cats and dogs lap water. I don't know about proving the gods drank in excess or their sense of humor, it does show that if it works it survives.
I always thought that giraffes, elephants and the flightless birds like the ostrich proved that god had a sense of humor. The snake is proof that one should not make god angry. Once the arms and legs are removed there are only a couple of ways to get around.

I tend not to place limitations on the primeval deity or the god of "creation". I do believe that evolution is a tool to provide for adaptation and multiplicity of speciation. It is common knowledge (common may be a bit much) that birds DNA is riddled with reptilian genes but to find both bird and reptilian genes in a mammal is a fair demonstration of evolution and the interconnections of species.

[Medusa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I've come up with a definitive reasoning for the existence of the divine. Look around you, at all the strange looking folks you see every day. Do you really think that a bunch of molecules floating around would have the sense of humor to make people look like that? And added to that, it's obvious that alcohol was created long before mankind discovered it as well. Take that same divine power. You'd have to be drunk to think about slapping a duck's face onto a weasel's body, then sticking some snake fangs and venom sacks to the same critter's paws.

Ahh the oldie but goodie...'just look at the sunset' variation 3.2a

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

Medusa,
You don't have to believe in anything that is not comfortable or incompatible with your view of the universe.
No one should expect you to do so. At the same time you should allow others the same freedom to believe what they do for the reasons (or lack thereof) that they do.
I am a very logical, methodical, science driven person. It is through my experiences that I found the ability to trust in a power that I call God as the creator. I don't even believe in "creation" as such but I will continue to use the terminology that best describes what my view of the events that occurred before time began. My dogma (if one could call it that) is evolutionary. It will change with advances in the knowledge of what happened before there was anyone to write it down. The Arratu Creed is:

The Arratu Creed

We believe in the known and unknown

In the deity of all and the all of deity

We believe that the deities of others are their perception of our own

We accept the evolution of the universe

And of all things within it

We accept responsibility for our own actions

And allow others to accept their own

We believe in energy and the free use of it by all beings

We believe in magik

And in the complementary nature of all things

We believe in the Law of Return

We accept that energy is life

And hold respect for all life