Reality of gods vs reality of experience

[thalassa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I would like some help with this thread.
1. Do people really believe that the deities exist in human form?

This will probably surprise people, but yes.

If we ignore the idea of the monotheistic prime mover/ultimate authority type god, what is a god? It's an entity that has power over life and death (but not completely, as relayed in the many mythos of many peoples), that can cause influence entire ecosystems, and that can control and manipulate the lives of others. And they are worshiped by the people.

For all intents and purposes, we are gods upon this planet. Some of us, obviously lesser deities with little status and ability, but gods none the less...more like a naiad than an Olympian. The atom bomb has far more power than Zeus's thunder bolt ever will, and that's nothing compared to modern nuclear weaponry. Forget Asclepius--we have machines that can see inside your body and we can use chemicals that we've invented to cut individual genes out of DNA. Temples have nothing on the millions of dollars people sacrifice to watch and wear and see and hear news of the objects of their favorite cults--the Green Bay Packers, the Kardashians, Manchester United.

Certainly we have limitations, and we are far from perfect...but so did/were they. Because their biggest limitation was each other...and fate.

(and yes, I realize that some people will think this is answer is "cheating" in some way and that I don't really believe that "supernatural entities" are coming down to earth in human form from their heavenly abode and pretending to be of our planet like an episode of Star Trek looking to breakthe Prime Directive--in which case, you would be absolutely correct...but as there is no definition of what a god is, or what a deity is, its not cheating )

2. Given the actual number of potential deities that have been named and believed do people believe they are actually separate deities filling the otherworld or are they just different names for the same deities with different titles due to different languages or cultures?

I don't believe that what we call gods exist in an otherworld (I do think the multiverse is a possibility and that it may or may not have "life" or conscious entities, and that it may or may not follow similar laws of physics, I just think that communicating with it or anything in it is highly unlikely--particularly through the techniques available to us as humans). I think they exist in this world, as ideas and symbols, and maybe as stories of (much less impressive) very distant real people. Because I think that gods are a human phenomenon, I (guided by research in a number of discipline from biology to archaeology to linguistics) think that some gods are "the same" in the sense that they share the same lineage, in the sense that Homo sapiens shares the same lineage as other (now extinct) human species, and that they are a product of cultural evolution as individual cultures evolved and interacted, migrating around the world.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

Thalassa, are we Atlantians due for a smack-down, or Dr. Frankensteins mucking about where we don't belong?

Or are we gods & goddesses?

(I like option 3. We've been growing up, and it's time to break the apron strings)

[Medusa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

If some of are of the lesser type gods, who is of a higher type god? Do any beings (since you say we are the gods) actually have god like powers?

Other than Wolverine.:^^:

[thalassa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I can take a stick and make fire.

[Medusa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

My butt can make a flame out of that fire.

I just need beans.

[magusphredde]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

I want to give an opinion as an outsider. And I know it's going to be a dissenting view. But it's just my hunch and I can be totally wrong about this.

I've noticed that when pressed on the question of actual living being most theists will go with the 'it's a spiritual thing'. I think because it's the easiest way to reconcile their spiritual belief with actual facts of there not actually being a living deity on this planet thus far.

I could be very wrong. But it seems it's a good back door escape to the question of Is your deity a real being? Well yes. But YOU can't see it.


I don't mean to sound flippant. And this isn't a fact. It's just an opinion based on my experience on this very board of that question posted. Even when posted by me some time ago. No one ever actually says yeah, it's real!

Hope that covers my bases of not getting in trouble. :shy:

The "reality" of a deity is a persona thing ... Some people have seen with their own eyes events that to them defy logical explaination therefore must be miracles the result of God/esses ... Some have just looked at the universe and wondered how such an order has come out of chaos ... I myself have had occasions where I could not explain something logically except as a coincidence but even that would be a stretch so I choose to believe there is "something" besides just this reality at work ... It sometimes helps me cope with life to think there is "something/someone/somewhere" at work or available for me to use or confide in at times ... I do not however believe in a specific god or goddess ...To me they are just human contrivances to make "whatever" easier to deal with on a persona level ...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

My butt can make a flame out of that fire.

I just need beans.

I can absorb the spirit of barley, and make it a part of me.

In fact, I am exercising that God-power right now.

I shall sign off soon, lest I begin to drunk post.

[Azvanna]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

My butt can make a flame out of that fire.

I just need beans.

'ware the backdraft!

Question: When does anecdotal evidence become reliable? Surely if enough people are reporting similar experiences...?

[thalassa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

'ware the backdraft!

Question: When does anecdotal evidence become reliable? Surely if enough people are reporting similar experiences...?

Anecdotal testimony isn't reliable until its investigated, corroborated, and replicated without finding any other plausible evidence-based, demonstratable, testable explanations. I mean really, look at the problem of "witness testimony" in court cases that jails innocent people (more sauce). Our senses, our experiences and our memories are fallible, we connect the unconnected and draw false conclusions (I see this a lot at work), we entrench ourselves in the idea of something being *true* even in the face of mountains of data otherwise (look at evolution deniers, holocaust deniers, and people that refuse to think that humans might be putting enough carbon dioxide into the atmosphere to make life very uncomfortable for ourselves). AND to top it off, the more often we recall something out of our memories, the more it changes and distorts---our own brain, remembering something, becomes it own game of telephone (sauce, extra sauce, extra extra sauce, radiolab sauce).

[Medusa]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

'ware the backdraft!

Question: When does anecdotal evidence become reliable? Surely if enough people are reporting similar experiences...?

yeti, big foot, loch ness, chubacabra, cucuyi, the death of Mandela.

Lies. All lies. :=o:

[magusphredde]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

Elvis has left the building ... And is hiding in the shed behind the grassy knoll ...

[anunitu]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

That sneaky Hip swaying little dork,I 86ed him just the other week....

[Azvanna]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

Anecdotal testimony isn't reliable until its investigated, corroborated, and replicated without finding any other plausible evidence-based, demonstratable, testable explanations.

So taking this for an example:

yeti, big foot, loch ness, chubacabra, cucuyi, the death of Mandela.

Lies. All lies. :=o:

Well it sounds obvious when you put it that way! I was more thinking along the lines of mass shared experiences, not something that can be seen. Then I realised this thread is called 'the reality of gods vs reality of experience.' oops.

I think it's really hard to use empirical evidence to affirm the existence of something we can't even define. Many of us can't agree whether there is one divine or many let alone what the substance of the divine might be or where it lives. Too hard basket!

The God Particle really captured my imagination for a while. The way I heard it described was the Higgs-Boson is a particle that is present in everything and gives matter its shape. I think this might be a derail, but I want to ask the question anyway. If you had the right theology, could that particle go a way toward affirming the reality of your idea of Divine (eg Divine in all)?

[Azvanna]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

So taking this for an example:



If you had the right theology, could that particle go a way toward affirming the reality of your idea of Divine (eg Divine in all)?

Thinking on this again, it would probably come back to how the Divine was defined. Say for instance if the Divine were a force or a person. Back to square one.

I'm so tired I feel like I'm talking to myself... MO did warn me to leave my sanity at the door when I joined...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Reality of gods vs reality of experience

On anecdotal testimony and the supernatural - here's why it's not trustworthy. This explanation relates to ghosts, but it works for all subjective phenomenon - notice the last 2, especially;

6 Scientific Explanations for Ghosts