Spirit guides

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Spirit guides

Rae'ya,
I just reread your question and I believe I misunderstood you. In writing the rituals for Arratu I didn't use Sumerian ritual sources (they would not have fit as Sumerians practiced in large temples and the personal practice that was often written about was the daily lamentations). I did bring forward a few things that I thought would fit but in writing the rituals my wife and I wrote them from scratch. The "love and trust" is a common thought that permeates our lives so it was a natural fit. I was told by a Correllian Nativist friend that I should banish the energy of the circle after the ritual was over but I never felt it was necessary. He and a couple that often took part in our rits are as close as I have been to Wicca and none of them had any input into the writing of them.
I could get into the whole philosophy of what we wanted in this new practice but I won't bore you with that. We did adhere to the universal laws of "return" and "complement". I don't know if Wicca teaches the Universal Laws but my first tradition (which was a bit more ceremonial and structured than what I know of Wicca) did and I hold faith that they are real universal laws that are true throughout the universe. I believe it was the Greek philosophers who first wrote the Universal Laws andthey have changed little since that time.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Spirit guides

Rae'ya,
I just reread your question and I believe I misunderstood you. In writing the rituals for Arratu I didn't use Sumerian ritual sources (they would not have fit as Sumerians practiced in large temples and the personal practice that was often written about was the daily lamentations). I did bring forward a few things that I thought would fit but in writing the rituals my wife and I wrote them from scratch. The "love and trust" is a common thought that permeates our lives so it was a natural fit. I was told by a Correllian Nativist friend that I should banish the energy of the circle after the ritual was over but I never felt it was necessary. He and a couple that often took part in our rits are as close as I have been to Wicca and none of them had any input into the writing of them.
I could get into the whole philosophy of what we wanted in this new practice but I won't bore you with that. We did adhere to the universal laws of "return" and "complement". I don't know if Wicca teaches the Universal Laws but my first tradition (which was a bit more ceremonial and structured than what I know of Wicca) did and I hold faith that they are real universal laws that are true throughout the universe. I believe it was the Greek philosophers who first wrote the Universal Laws andthey have changed little since that time.

That explains a few things. So what part of Arratu is based on ancient Sumerian sources? Just the deities?

The unfortunate (or fortunate, depending on where you stand) thing about Wicca and it's neoWiccan children is that it's incredibly pervasive in modern paganism. If you've drawn from any modern neopagan sources (including discussions with your Correlian friends), you've drawn from Wicca. And as far as Greek philosophers go... well they aren't Sumerian either. Contrary to popular belief, the Hermetic Principles are not Universal Laws. Claiming that the Principles are Universal Laws is a relatively late trend that I fully suspect became popular in neopaganism simply because it allowed neoWiccans to claim ancient legitimacy to their somewhat corrupted Universal Laws. If you read the Kybalion (which is one of the primary sources on Hermetic philosophy) there is no mention of Universal Law. It's not the 'Law of Return' or the 'Law of Complement'. It's the Principle of Cause and Effect.

The trick about modern pagan sources is that in order to fully understand them, you need to understand THEIR sources. This is why I asked for the sources you've used for Arratu. Because you've integrated a great many things into your path that having nothing whatsoever to do with the Sumerian roots that you claim. Which is fine... it's your path and you can do whatever you like in it. I don't judge you for that. I'm just trying to understand why you claim that, so that I can sort out which of your apparently 'Sumerian' practices are actually worth me investigating further (as someone who has an interest in modern practices based on Sumerian, Akkadian and Babylonian sources).

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Spirit guides

That's one of the big issues I think with modern notions of paganism. Figure pretty much everything written for paganism and a lot of new age stuff since the mid to late 1980's has been heavily Wiccan influenced. Especially during the 1990's where so much outer court type stuff passed into the self initiated / self dedicated forms of Wicca that sprang up while moving away from the more traditional lineage'd and oath bound Gardernerian or Alexanderian forms of Wicca. Even those forms that lay claim to coming off of things such as the Golden Dawn, Order of Bards, Ovids and Druids, etc were heavily Wiccanized when they started coming out of their lineage'd and structured practices.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Spirit guides

When I say "Law of Returns" I am not talking about the Wiccan "Threefold law". The definition of the "Law of Returns" simply states that what you get out of any endeavor is dependent on and proportional to what you put into it. The Law applies to all facets of life including recreational activities, education, and your spiritual life. If you attend a function and put nothing into the function, you get nothing out of that function. The more you put into the function, the more you get out of it.
The "Law of Complements" simply states that opposites are of, and for, the completion of a thing. Nothing can be defined as a whole without it's complement.

While you could encompass these under the heading of cause and effect it would be too general and ill defined in my view. For instance darkness does not cause and is not a direct effect of light and the reverse is also true. Red does not cause green. Good does not cause evil and so on. Both must exist to define or complete the other.
Your view may be different, this is just my view of things that seem to occur "universally".

[Rae'ya]

Re: Spirit guides

When I say "Law of Returns" I am not talking about the Wiccan "Threefold law".

That's fortuitous, because neither am I

(And incidentally, the Threefold Law is a neoWiccan thing, but was not a part of Gardner's original Wicca. Gardner subscribed to the Law of Return rather than the Threefold Law. As I'm sure you know, the Law of Return comes from earlier ceremonial sources and was adopted by a number of relatively modern ceremonial paths, including the original Wiccan traditions.).

The definition of the "Law of Returns" simply states that what you get out of any endeavor is dependent on and proportional to what you put into it. The Law applies to all facets of life including rcreational activities, education, and your spiritual life. If you attend a function and put nothing into the function, you get nothing out of that function. The more you put into the function, the more you get out of it.
The "Law of Complements" simply states that opposites are of, and for, the completion of a thing. Nothing can be defined as a whole without it's complement.

While you could encompass these under the heading of cause and effect it would be too general and ill defined in my view. For instance darkness does not cause and is not a direct effect of light and the reverse is also true. Red does not cause green. Good does not cause evil and so on. Both must exist to define or complete the other.
Your view may be different, this is just my view of things that seem to occur "universally".

I wasn't actually stating my view, simply responding to your claim that the Law of Return is a Universal Law laid down by the Greeks, which is not true. I tend to label my views and opinions very clearly, though of course you are welcome to challenge any categorical statements I make and request sources. I am quite familiar with your Laws of Return and Complement, particularly as put forth by ceremonialists and by Crowley. I'm also familiar with the Hermetic Principles and the differences between the two sets of statements. My personal opinion is that there is no such thing as Universal Laws except those of physics, which are more Planetary Laws than Universal Laws. I do find some of the Hermetic Principles to be of value, but not all of them.

Either way, my interest in this discussion is actually not Universal Laws, but trying to find out more about Arratu's source information. Hence my questions.