Heathen Q&A

[Thjoth]

I figure we can just start fresh with the Heathen Q&A thread in our new Heathen forum (hot damn, we have our own forum everybody!)

If anybody saved the OP from the old Heathen Q&A or the old Heathen Resources thread that was right next to it, it would be good to post those. As I recall the OP to the old Q&A thread had some useful links in it.

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

You know, somewhere in my infinite stupidity I forgot that when you start a thread you're supposed to explain what the hell it's about. Durrrr.

Welcome, everyone, to the new Heathen Q&A thread! If you have any questions about what exactly a Heathen is, what we do, why we do it, what our favorite time of year is to pillage English monasteries is (I prefer early July, myself), or any other questions that could be directed towards us, ask them here! I can't say that we don't bite, but it's rare and we've all most of us have had our shots, I promise.

So, if you're curious about anything to do with Heathenry at all, ask away!

[Grim]

Re: Heathen Q&A

WOOT our very own board


I would love to answer any questions.

[ThorsSon]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Ask whatever you would like to ask.

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Maybe the regular Heathens here can kick start it by thinking of the FAQ's we often get, post them, post their answers. Then we can argue about the answers a bit :P

So here are some questions I've heard newbies asking...

1) So what happens when you die? And is Helheim really horrible?
2) Do you have regular holidays/festivals and what do you do on them?
3) What form do Heathen rituals take?
4) Are there any good beginner books? What should I read first?

I'll pop back later to answer my own questions. :P

[Crimson Horizons]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Excellent idea, Maythe!

[quote author=Maythe link=topic=92.msg1115#msg1115 date=1286814625]
1) So what happens when you die? And is Helheim really horrible?
2) Do you have regular holidays/festivals and what do you do on them?
3) What form do Heathen rituals take?
4) Are there any good beginner books? What should I read first?
[/quote]

1) This is going to vary from heathen to heathen. For me, personally, there isn't much beyond the gravemound for most of us. Some of us will stick around as wights for the family or the land, but I think the majority of us will end up staying in the grave. It's why it has become so important to me to try and purchase a plot of land large enough to bury the dead in (I think it's 5+ acres in Texas). As to the second question, it's kind of moot given my earlier response.

2)Again, this will vary from heathen to heathen. The Buffalo Kindred, the Kindred I am a part of, celebrates a few holy days every year (such as Mother's Night, New Years and Odhin's Blot), while a few others are celebrated as we fell the need. Traditionally, a thing was celebrated if it was important to the community, so there are things that are celebrated only in certain areas/cities. These things don't need to be pagan oriented to be celebrated by a heathen. Anything that benefits the community benefits the heathen (in most cases, anyway), and should be celebrated as such.

3) Now this is pretty standard! Basically, we honour our ancestors and the Regin, personal heroes and family members, and we recognize the success and own up to the failures of our kin. Alcohol is almost always involved. Now, how various groups do the above may vary slightly (depending on how much pomp a particular group may want to add), but while the platter often varies the meal is the same.

4) There are no good beginners books that I know of as such. For a first read, I would recommend the Havamal, a tale contained in the Poetic Edda. What translator you use isn't really all that important (though I personally recommend Chisholm). From there, try to find any historical/anthropological information you can. Then go back and read the Havamal. Then read another historical/anthropological book, followed by the Havamal. I recommend repeating this process until you feel that you really understand the worldview of the ancestors (i.e. the way the ancestors looked at the world around them). Once you can place yourself in the same frame of mind as the ancestors, I recommend reading the rest of the Eddas, both Poetic and Prose, the Sagas, and other Scholarly works. The What are you reading now? and Book Hoard threads over at Asatru Lore have been quite helpful to me in determining what books to read next!

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

So what happens when you die? And is Helheim really horrible? Crimson and I differ on this one. I think most people end up in Hel's hall, and Helheim ain't so bad. Maybe other gods can yoink you to their hall if they like you enough.

Do you have regular holidays/festivals and what do you do on them? There's a few attested in lore (Yule, Mother's Night and Eostre and I guess you could make an argument for Lammas... is that really it?) but most people seem to celebrate as and when they feel there's something to celebrate. Yule is a big one for many Heathens. Kindreds often seem to have their own 'calendar' developed over the years. Some Heathens follow a calender bearing a strange similarity to the Wiccan wheel of the Year. This is because they took the Wiccan Wheel of the Year, tippexed out the celtic names and stuck 'Heathen' names in the gaps. Cynic? Moi? Surely not. What we do on them is usually hold a blot and/or sumble. See below...

What form do Heathen rituals take? Eating, drinking and making offerings of, guess what, food and drink. Blot involves a feast - historically the slaughter of the animal providing the meat was the central part. Modern Heathens vary on whether they do this, would consider doing it but are prevented by local laws or think it's a practise that should stay in the 8th century. Sumble involves the passing of a horn of drink (usually alcohol, often mead) and toasts being made over it. Depending on the kind of sumble this can go on a while... it's fairly bad form to get truly wasted in sumble though. Some people separate Blot and Sumble, some people stick 'em together in one ritual in a way that's not particularly historically accurate but perhaps convenient.

Are there any good beginner books? What should I read first? I'd second CH's suggestions but also point out that Our Troth vols 1&2 are pretty good overviews (vol 1 is better than 2), if you're not hard recon that is *ducks*.

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

1) Tend to agree with Maythe on this one, mostly, although I do think oathbreakers and kinslayers will have a hard time of it after they're properly dead.

2) Yule is the only one I really do. I'm a heathen without a kindred though so there you go, kinda like a pirate without a parrot or peanut butter without jelly, it's just a bit less interesting.

3) Maythe covered this, this is basically hard fact and not really open to much variation.

4) I've read Our Troth. While I won't go into their........historical methods, it is indeed a pretty good overview. If I read it as an historian I'd have to tear it a new one, and if I read it as a pure recon (which is the direction I've been leaning) then I'd have to tear it a new one again, but it at least gets your feet wet. I still haven't figured out what in the bloody hell they were going on about with that "soul matrix" business, though. I had a giant "WTF?" hanging over my head for that whole chapter.

The Eddas are always a good place to start, though. The Chisholm translation of the Poetic Edda can be found here: http://www.woodharrow.com/images/ChisholmEdda.pdf and is the one we normally use for our discussions around here. When you read the Prose Edda you have to take it with a grain of salt, though, because it was composed after the Christianization of Iceland, and as such Snorri had a bit of a bias there that's worth noting.

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Yeah what is with that Soul Matrix BS? I should probably add that, like anything written for a modern audience, you need your salt shaker on hand. :

What didn't you like about the history, if it's possible to cover it briefly Thjoth? I particularly liked the Gods sections, and the fact they'll often give both sides of an argument or state where there's debate.

[ThorsSon]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Not much I can add here... I pretty much agree with everyone on all the questions... although I can't decide for sure where I stand on the answer to the first one.

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

[quote author=ThorsSon link=topic=92.msg2034#msg2034 date=1286958107]
Not much I can add here... I pretty much agree with everyone on all the questions... although I can't decide for sure where I stand on the answer to the first one.
[/quote]There is a part of me that thinks it doesn't really matter till I die - as long as I do my best in the meantime!

[Shahaku]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Okay so I did a quick definition search for heathen and got this:
1. an unconverted individual of a people that do not acknowledge the god of the Bible; a person who is neither a Jew, Christian, nor Muslim; pagan.
2. an irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized person.

I'm thinking theres more to it than that so could someone clue me in? What is heathenism?

Edited to add: And why is it in the child boards?

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

We venerate our ancestors and the gods of northern Europe, Scandinavia, and Iceland. To use a horrifyingly simplified word which I try to never utter because it makes people make instant generalizations and assumptions, congratulations, you just found the Viking (wince) population of our fair board.

The reason we use the word "heathen" is first because it sticks it in the eye of our Christian friends, in much the same way that "Christian" was originally derogatory and was adopted as the proper name for the religion. Second, "heathen" isn't a loaded term like "asatru", "odinist" or anything like that; it comes without a potential for ideological baggage.

The reason we have our own child board is that some form of heathenism is arguably the second most common line of thought under the "pagan" umbrella besides Wicca, and we might even tie Wicca for that distinction these days. We do, however, differ from a lot of other Pagan religions on a number of points. For example, we aren't normally directly nature based, a greater population of heathens are recons than probably anything else (basing rituals, lore and such on hard historical and archaeological evidence), and we aren't as "peaceful" as a lot of other faiths; our faith was born out of conflict and strife into times of war, and it reflects that. Note that these are extreme generalities and won't hold if you put them under a microscope, but it gives you the gist of it.

Also Maythe, I'll have to get Our Troth out again later to confirm this as I haven't taken it off the shelf in quite a while, but I remember having the urge when I read it to get my "CITE SOME PROPER DAMN SOURCES" stamp and stamp all over the thing.

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I gotta say...good to see you Thjoth and TS!

Ok, as you guys know, I'm very interested in Heathenry, but I'm waiting a year before I make any changes official.

I do, however, have a promise I need to fulfill. I need to make an appropriate offering once I get an alter worked out, and I'm unsure about the best way to do that. Advice?

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I usually just pour a glass of ale, dedicate it to the gods and have a drink with them. Failing that you can dedicate a similar drink to them and pour it over an altar stone outside.