Heathen Q&A

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

What they said :P

I'd say the only thing I put conscious effort into is ensuring that I go far enough in being a good guest/host. This can be difficult with one friend who seems to think being a good host involves not allowing his guests to pay for anything. There is often a minor scuffle at the tills when we pop out for party supplies when I try to pay and he tries to stop me it's become something of a tradition, although he's getting sneakier... I think I've always been a pretty good guest/host (if I do say so myself :P ), I just take it that wee bit further these days.

I suppose it's also added making offerings into my regular activities, and going out to blots and kindred study groups.

[Ravenix]

Re: Heathen Q&A

[quote author=Sin link=topic=92.msg16762#msg16762 date=1290604006]
So on an ordinary daily basis how does being Heathen affect your routine or daily activities?
[/quote]

Not too much really. I do offerings and such every so often, but most of the time I'm far too busy! The only celebrations I ever really have time to properly celebrate are Geola (Yule), Eostre (I'm sure you know what that is :P) and May Day. And the term 'properly celebrate' is being used pretty loosely here, as my boyfriend is the only other Heathen I know, so we don't exactly have huge feasts...

I do spend time each day thinking/wondering about the Gods or the lore, and I do the odd prayer. Tbh I'm probably not that much different from any other Pagan in terms of routine.

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

[quote author=Maythe link=topic=92.msg17118#msg17118 date=1290669117]
What they said :P

I'd say the only thing I put conscious effort into is ensuring that I go far enough in being a good guest/host. This can be difficult with one friend who seems to think being a good host involves not allowing his guests to pay for anything. There is often a minor scuffle at the tills when we pop out for party supplies when I try to pay and he tries to stop me it's become something of a tradition, although he's getting sneakier... I think I've always been a pretty good guest/host (if I do say so myself :P ), I just take it that wee bit further these days.

I suppose it's also added making offerings into my regular activities, and going out to blots and kindred study groups.
[/quote]

Or it could be that you're stepping on his manly pride a bit there. You know, ladies aren't allowed to pay for anything unless they're related to you. Just imagine it lord of the rings style: YOU SHALL NOT PAY!!

You know, I should probably quit posting under mild sleep deprivation. Things seem to get incredibly disjointed....

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

[quote author=Thjoth link=topic=92.msg18308#msg18308 date=1291051727]
Or it could be that you're stepping on his manly pride a bit there. You know, ladies aren't allowed to pay for anything unless they're related to you. Just imagine it lord of the rings style: YOU SHALL NOT PAY!!

[/quote]You could have a point there, bless him... but he would admit it. And to be fair to him he acts pretty much the same if Kieren and I go out to breakfast with him.

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I'd like to find out more about what is known about differences in practice between different parts of the Germanic world (Anglo-saxon, German, Norse, etc). Does anyone have a good starting point for me?

[TaiganPagan]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Heathenry has different faiths: Norse, Asatru, Vanatru, Farmer/Soldier, Anglo-Saxon. Rus Heathenry, Teutonic Heathenry, Hungarian Heathenry, Slavic Heathenry... and maybe more!

Well for the Norse, you can ask Thjoth, he's the one with the most knowledge about them.

For the Asatru faith, you can ask ThorsSon, Thjoth and Crimson Horizons

For questions about Normans, Freya and the way of the Farmer/Soldier, I can help you with the answers, but so Thjoth may help you also, because he's the Heathen Encyclopedia here.

For the Anglo-Saxon, I suggest Ravenix.

However I do not know who here can help you deeply with Vanatru, alltho my faith has a lot of elements from that faith.

For Rus Heathenry, Teutonic Heathenry, Hungarian Heathenry and Slavic Heathenry... I do not know who can help you... may the ask a Slavic Pagan guy... he may know.

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Yeah, I really have no idea what the differences between Norse and Anglo-Saxon would be. I've always just assumed that the largest real difference was in the names, similar to the difference between the Greek and Roman pantheons. When I look at sources I tend to do some blending based on this assumption, IE a tale of Thor in Old High German or one of the Saxon dialects is just as viable as one in Old Norse, his name just changes to Thunar (Anglo-Saxon). It's the same thing with Tyr, his name changes to Tiw but it's extremely obvious that it's the same deity.

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Hmm...seems like if I'm interested, then, some good old-fashioned research is in order! Thanks, guys

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Aye, that's about all you can do. There aren't a lot of people who are multidisciplinarian enough to make a call on such a thing, as digging down into it as deeply as would be required would need a decent command of three or four dead languages, or as many as six or seven if you wanted a more complete survey that included celtic and slavic societies and we're using middle latin to bridge a few. I'll probably have old norse, old high german and middle latin by the time I finish my degrees, but that'll be a while, so I'm afraid I can't give a complete answer at present.

[Ravenix]

Re: Heathen Q&A

[quote author=Deseret link=topic=92.msg18341#msg18341 date=1291057673]
I'd like to find out more about what is known about differences in practice between different parts of the Germanic world (Anglo-saxon, German, Norse, etc). Does anyone have a good starting point for me?
[/quote]Gods exclusive to the Anglo-Saxons: , seemingly not having a cognate term for 'Vanir' (at least one has never been found).

And Anglo-Saxons had dwarves, giants and elves, much like the other Germanic faiths. They also had realms for these creatures, though very little information survives on what exactly these realms were; in fact the only reference is via the 'Nine Herbs Charm' which states that there are 'seven worlds'.
What is known is that there is no Anglo-Saxon cognate for Asgard found anywhere in the Old English texts; however there are references to Heofon, which is where the English Christians got the term 'heaven'. Heofon is thought to be the Anglo-Saxon afterlife paradise, with Hell (which was originally an Anglo-Saxon word also) being the place of punishment. The scribes did not initially describe this hell as being hot with fire, but having a cold fire, and being dark, enclosed and full of wyrmas (serpents; at that point the term had not come to mean earthworms and the like). From this, we can gather a good idea of what Heofon and Hell were like, and the other realms would have presumably been:

Middangeard (the realm of men)

Realm of the light elves

Realm of the dark elves

Realm of the dwarves

Realm of the giants

This totals seven worlds. (So shoot me, I can't speak Old English yet; when I can, I'll come up with reconstructed names for these places :P).

In terms of rites, customs, etc, it's much the same as Norse, with very slight variations. (I.e. May Day instead of Walpurgisnacht).

Also (almost forgot this one!), our runes are different; the alphabet is called the Futhorc and has 33 runes, as opposed to the Elder Futhark's 24.



Also, because the Anglo-Saxon religion was replaced by Christianity very early on (as compared to Norse), it never got the chance to develop its mythology as much as Norse did; that's why we don't have as many epic poems and such. Futhermore, much of the historical info comes from Christian scribes, who didn't want to chronicle the pagan rites as much; Bede refused to give any details on the midsummer rites as they were so heretical. (Lol!)

That should be enough for you so far! :3

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

That was exactly the sort of starting point I was looking for, Ravanix, thank you and +1!

Are their any books you'd suggest?

[Ravenix]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Thanks! Glad I could help

Books you can try are the ones I've got:

First of all, the original stuff! Like 'Beowulf'. I have the Seamus Heaney translation, and if you read between the lines there's a lot there. You can look at other translations too, see what filters through via other people. I have a uni booklet with copies of poems like 'The Wanderer', 'The Seafarer' and 'The Battle of Maldon' in too, but you should easily find these compiled in a collection of Anglo-Saxon poetry or online; as for charms/spells/rites, I found the 'Nine Herbs Charm' etc. online as copies of the whole Lacnunga are ridiculously expensive! XD

Modern books:

Kathleen Herbert, 'Looking For The Lost Gods of England'- a transcribed lecture about the Anglo-Saxon gods. Very informative and sheds some interesting new lights on AS mythology. Also has maps and stuff in the back!

Brian Bates, 'The Way of Wyrd'- A fictional account of a Christian scribe who is taken under the wing on an Anglo-Saxon sorceror. Based on historical accounts and established knowledge of AS beliefs; this book really helped me, I'd even say it changed how I view the world and my religion for the better.

There's also the definitive book, Brian Branston's 'The Lost Gods of England'- I haven't read it yet, waiting for a cheap enough copy to come up on Amazon, but it's meant to be excellent.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Another point that's worth making is that the transition from heathenism to Christianity was by no means smooth and progressive for the Anglo-Saxons. England had been Christian before the Anglo Saxons arrived, then reverted to heathenism.

Because it was very much the leaders and kings who then converted to Christianity first, we have no way of knowing whether the rank and file really converted or whether their leaders did so on their behalf. Some kings went back to heathenism. There was a sort of collective to-ing and fro-ing from time to time and in place to place.

Then of course there were the Viking invasions - once these started it put a rather different slant on things. The Vikings were heathens - slightly different traditions and we have no way, as Ravenix mentions - of knowing precisely how different. So Christianity didn't have the firm foothold it likes to pretend.


Altogether a very unstable period in history - and yet aesthetically incredibly beautiful, too, especially the material culture (look up the Sutton Hoo treasure) and much of the literature of the post-Christian period.

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I'd have stuff to add on Anglo-Saxons if I wasn't zombie-Maythe today I'll come back to the thread and attempt to be useful later when my brain has made itself at home again.

[Ravenix]

Re: Heathen Q&A

[quote author=Tylluan Penry link=topic=92.msg19871#msg19871 date=1291505481]
Another point that's worth making is that the transition from heathenism to Christianity was by no means smooth and progressive for the Anglo-Saxons. England had been Christian before the Anglo Saxons arrived, then reverted to heathenism.

Because it was very much the leaders and kings who then converted to Christianity first, we have no way of knowing whether the rank and file really converted or whether their leaders did so on their behalf. Some kings went back to heathenism. There was a sort of collective to-ing and fro-ing from time to time and in place to place.

Then of course there were the Viking invasions - once these started it put a rather different slant on things. The Vikings were heathens - slightly different traditions and we have no way, as Ravenix mentions - of knowing precisely how different. So Christianity didn't have the firm foothold it likes to pretend.


Altogether a very unstable period in history - and yet aesthetically incredibly beautiful, too, especially the material culture (look up the Sutton Hoo treasure) and much of the literature of the post-Christian period.
[/quote]

Indeed!

This reminds me of an interesting idea we looked at in Uni, where Christianity was thought of as a spiritual 'easy way out' because you could always repent, whereas the pagan way was a lot less forgiving.

There was also a lot of hostility towards the missionaries from the common folk at first; in one town they were chased away with fish-tails tied to their clothing as a sign of mockery.

I also remember reading a story about a Viking king who was about to convert to Christianity, and after he put one foot into the baptism water he asked, 'What of my ancestors- are they in your Heaven too?', to which the Christians replied, 'No, they are heathens who were never baptised, so their souls will be in Hell'. The king replied, 'In that case I'd rather be in Hell with my ancestors than in Heaven with a bunch of beggars like you', withdrew his foot and remianed heathen. I can't remember his name for the life of me, I read it on a website that's buried somewhere in my bookmarks. Cool story all the same.