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I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books
Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."
The Chief nodded in agreement.
The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"
The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."
Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
"The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain
"There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying
It's a good and well recognised translation. I find Larrington's to be good for a newcomer, other translations such as Hollander, Thorpe, Auden & Taylor and Bellows are all very good.
I've always been a little iffy on the Thorpe translation, just because he tries to make the English as pretty as possible, so some of the passages may not be translated exactly right due to this. I can't say for sure, though, as I don't know Old Norse.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
-Thomas Jefferson
Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.
-
I've always been a little iffy on the Thorpe translation, just because he tries to make the English as pretty as possible, so some of the passages may not be translated exactly right due to this. I can't say for sure, though, as I don't know Old Norse.
Thorpes translation is iffy, based on what?
May not be translated correctly, based on what?
We use Chisholms, I dont!
Can you please give verifiable sources for your statements.
Modi
Gunnarr Sandisson
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." Albert Einstein Five Boroughs Hearth
Thorpes translation is iffy, based on what?
May not be translated correctly, based on what?
We use Chisholms, I dont!
Can you please give verifiable sources for your statements.
Modi
Any time you translate a poetic work and try to keep its meter and rhyming structure in the target language, you have to sacrifice a literal translation for a more artistic translation. That's just a fact. By doing this, the underlying tone of the piece may be very slightly changed. If you look at Bray or Chisholm, they do more literal translations. That's why I, personally, feel a little iffy on Thorpes' translation.
And since you haven't been around long enough to have seen any of our Edda discussions, I'll forgive you for not knowing this, but whenever we do Edda discussions we use the Chisholm translation. Trust me, I'm the one that does the Edda discussions, and that's what I copy-paste into the discussion posts. CH and I, as well as Maythe and ThorsSon, use the Chisholm as our base translation, but we use all the others for clarification as well, and that's the "we" I'm talking about, since the three of us (minus ThorsSon because he's not around so much) are the only ones who really participate in the verse-by-verse Edda discussions with any regularity, as everyone else that attempts it seems to drop off the face of the earth once it gets started in earnest.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
-Thomas Jefferson
Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.
-
How come you have 10 rep power, have you mods given yourselves them why?
Modi
Not relevant to the topic.
�Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
Sneak Attack
Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.
So your verifiable sources are ?
How come you have 10 rep power, have you mods given yourselves them why?
Modi
Heh, color me embarrassed, but I seem to have confused Thorpe with Larrington :P Whoops xD
LARRINGTON is the one that deviates from the original text a lot. THORPE I just couldn't get into the style of the translation as a personal preference. Larrington, on the other hand, likes to fully translate all the Norse names with whatever translation Larrington likes, even if there are multiple translations, which also kind of balls up the text. Larrington also likes to replace Norse concepts with ones from Classical literature (think the Iliad, Odyssey, and so on) that kind of generally resemble one another, which is something that I probably don't need to tell you is a bad idea. I mean, sure, it makes it easier to read, but it messes with the underlying meanings and attitude of the text like crazy, and any gains in readability here are already defeated by the full translation of all the names.
As for the rep thing, I really don't know, but like Juni said, it's OT for this thread.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
-Thomas Jefferson
Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.
-
Ok where in Larringtons translation does she do this, can you give a few examples with page numbers as it is an interesting post but is still sounding slightly UPG.
Modi
Gunnarr Sandisson
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." Albert Einstein Five Boroughs Hearth
Ok where in Larringtons translation does she do this, can you give a few examples with page numbers as it is an interesting post but is still sounding slightly UPG.
Modi
Well first is strophe 9 in Voluspa:
Bellows:
9. Then sought the gods | their assembly-seats,
The holy ones, | and council held,
To find who should raise | the race of dwarfs
Out of Brimir's blood | and the legs of Blain.
Chisholm:Larrington:
9: Then all the Powers went to the thrones of fate,
the sarosanct gods, and considered this:
who should form the lord of the dwarfs
out of Brimir's blood and from Blain's limbs?
Original:
Also from Voluspa, 14-16:
Bellows:
14. The race of the dwarfs | in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar | the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, | and through wet lands
They sought a home | in the fields of sand.
15. There were Draupnir | and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, | Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, | Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, | Skafith, Ai.
16. Alf and Yngvi, | Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, | Fith and Ginnar;
So for all time | shall the tale be known,
The list of all | the forbears of Lofar.
Chisholm:Larrington:
14: Time it is to tally up the dwarfs in Dvalin's lineage,
the people of Lofar
those who sought out from the stony halls
the dwelling of Loamfield on Iorovellir.
15: There were Draupnir and Dolgthrasir,
Greyhair, Mound-river, Lee-plain, Glow,
Skirvir, Virvir, Skafid, and Great-Grandfather.
16: Elf and Yngvi, Oakenshield,
Fialar and Frosty, Finn and Betrayer;
They'll be remembered while mankind endures,
the long tally of ancestors of Lofar.
Original:
There's seriously too much to list. Orlog is regularly translated as "fate", as is Wyrd; the regin are called "strong and loving" when there's no trace of the word "loving" in the original, the translations I've seen always go with "strong and mighty", "strong and powerful", or "strong and gracious". Hence, this translation definitely doesn't find a friend in me.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
-Thomas Jefferson
Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.
-
I can see in your comparative texts that you would be distrustful of the translation, But I do not dismiss any of them they are all relevent and all have information, on the strength of your post alone I will purchase Chisolms Eddas. I use all comparative texts to translate into a piece of work with a more informed heathen read. Larringtons translation has been well recieved into the heathen community, translations like Larringtons and Chisholms have the benefit of other authors in this area, but more importantly a greater literal understanding, due to discoveries and advancement in language.
Thank you for your post,
Modi
Gunnarr Sandisson
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." Albert Einstein Five Boroughs Hearth
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