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Edda Discussion: Völuspá
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Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
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Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
Mim's sons are likely a reference kenning for the gods when taken in this context though it is an odd one since Mim is another name for Mimir, the guy who is only a head, and he is a giant. Once more we are confronted with the blurred distinction of who is a giant and who is a god.
Like the shepard a few verses ago the gods are indulging in playful pursuits when the inevitable occurs Gjallarhorn is sounded, Ragnarok is here.
[The line below are in none of my translation, only the first four. But on the website I found they are, so I have decided to include them here. I am much in doubt on whether or not this is translated correctly since I had to rely entirely on my Old Norse having access to no other translation of them.]
Yggdrasil quakes
the standing ash
it moans in the old tree
and the giant gets loose
All quivers
who walks the road to Hel
but the kin of Surtar
will slay him.
Yggdrasil is possibly another way of saying the whole world. The reason it quakes is because the giant is finally breaks his bonds making most scholars believe that the giant in question here is Loki. Generally, and this doesn't just go for Old Norse mythology but nearly all old myths and stories, natural disasters such as earthquakes, erupting volcanoes and the like, entered into stories about the end of the world. This is probably because event that momentous and unusual was seen as a disruption of the world order and thereby a sing that things were no longer as they should be and as follows a possible sign that the world was coming to an end.
What the last four lines mean I have no idea since I have never seen them before.
It isn't just the gods that are affected by Ragnarok, here the dwarves appear as well. The lines of this verse indicates that the line separating elves and dwarves were possibly a fine distinction for the Old Norse, if it was there at all. And even these beings are afraid, hidden though they are beneath the earth where one might think they would feel safe. Also it is an indication that Ragnarok does not only affect the gods but all the worlds and all people in it.
See verse 44.
Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
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51. O'er the sea from the north | there sails a ship
With the people of Hel, | at the helm stands Loki;
After the wolf | do wild men follow,
And with them the brother | of Byleist goes.
52. Surt fares from the south | with the scourge of branches,
The sun of the battle-gods | shone from his sword;
The crags are sundered, | the giant-women sink,
The dead throng Hel-way, | and heaven is cloven.
53. Now comes to Hlin | yet another hurt,
When Othin fares | to fight with the wolf,
And Beli's fair slayer | seeks out Surt,
For there must fall | the joy of Frigg.
54. Then comes Sigfather's | mighty son,
Vithar, to fight | with the foaming wolf;
In the giant's son | does he thrust his sword
Full to the heart: | his father is avenged.
55. Hither there comes | the son of Hlothyn,
The bright snake gapes | to heaven above;
. . . . . . . . . .
Against the serpent | goes Othin's sonThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic
RIP
I have never been across the way
Seen the desert and the birds
You cut your hair short
Like a shush to an insult
The world had been yelling
Since the day you were born
Revolting with anger
While it smiled like it was cute
That everything was shit.
- J. Wylder
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Opinionated
- Jun 2013
- 2447
- Northern Tradition Shaminist Demonolator. Or something along those lines...
- female
- Adelaide, Australia
Originally posted by Heka View Post51. O'er the sea from the north | there sails a ship
With the people of Hel, | at the helm stands Loki;
After the wolf | do wild men follow,
And with them the brother | of Byleist goes.
Originally posted by Heka View Post52. Surt fares from the south | with the scourge of branches,
The sun of the battle-gods | shone from his sword;
The crags are sundered, | the giant-women sink,
The dead throng Hel-way, | and heaven is cloven.
Hel-way is the Helvegr... the Hel Road which all must travel to get into Hellheim. Apparently the armies of the dead walk out of Helheim as well as sail. It could also mean that the gates of Hellheim are closed and therefore no newly dead can get in, and must therefore mill about on the Helvegr.
Originally posted by Heka View Post53. Now comes to Hlin | yet another hurt,
When Othin fares | to fight with the wolf,
And Beli's fair slayer | seeks out Surt,
For there must fall | the joy of Frigg.
Originally posted by Heka View Post54. Then comes Sigfather's | mighty son,
Vithar, to fight | with the foaming wolf;
In the giant's son | does he thrust his sword
Full to the heart: | his father is avenged.
Originally posted by Heka View Post55. Hither there comes | the son of Hlothyn,
The bright snake gapes | to heaven above;
. . . . . . . . . .
Against the serpent | goes Othin's son
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Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
Originally posted by Rae'ya View PostI'm interested in MoonRaven's assertation that Managarm is the wolf who chases the sun... Managarm means 'Moon Hound' and is thought to be another name for Hati, who chases Mani, not for Skoll, who chases Sol.
See verse 44. (Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.)
Vidar kills Fenris to avenge the death of his father Odin. Not much more to say about this verse except that it reinforces Vidar's connection with vengeance.
(Since verse 55 and 56 is one verse in my editions, and there are quite a few oddities, I'll address it with next weeks batch if that's okay?)Last edited by MoonRaven; 20 Oct 2013, 06:42.Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
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57. The sun turns black, | earth sinks in the sea,
The hot stars down | from heaven are whirled;
Fierce grows the steam | and the life-feeding flame,
Till fire leaps high | about heaven itself.
58. Now Garm howls loud | before Gnipahellir,
The fetters will burst, | and the wolf run free;
Much do I know, | and more can see
Of the fate of the gods, | the mighty in fight.
59. Now do I see | the earth anew
Rise all green | from the waves again;
The cataracts fall, | and the eagle flies,
And fish he catches | beneath the cliffs.
60. The gods in Ithavoll | meet together,
Of the terrible girdler | of earth they talk
And the mighty past | they call to mind,
And the ancient runes | of the Ruler of Gods.ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic
RIP
I have never been across the way
Seen the desert and the birds
You cut your hair short
Like a shush to an insult
The world had been yelling
Since the day you were born
Revolting with anger
While it smiled like it was cute
That everything was shit.
- J. Wylder
Comment
-
Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
[the worst thing that could happen to one of the Old Norse was if one left behind a bad reputation.]
And for the last time Finally, it was getting ludicrous.
See verse 44.
I have translated the Old Norse word to secrets since that is what it actually means, though the usual translation is to runesWarning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
Comment
-
ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic
RIP
I have never been across the way
Seen the desert and the birds
You cut your hair short
Like a shush to an insult
The world had been yelling
Since the day you were born
Revolting with anger
While it smiled like it was cute
That everything was shit.
- J. Wylder
Comment
-
Opinionated
- Jun 2013
- 2447
- Northern Tradition Shaminist Demonolator. Or something along those lines...
- female
- Adelaide, Australia
Originally posted by Heka View Post56. In anger smites | the warder of earth,--
Forth from their homes | must all men flee;-
Nine paces fares | the son of Fjorgyn,
And, slain by the serpent, | fearless he sinks.
Originally posted by Heka View Post57. The sun turns black, | earth sinks in the sea,
The hot stars down | from heaven are whirled;
Fierce grows the steam | and the life-feeding flame,
Till fire leaps high | about heaven itself.
Originally posted by Heka View Post58. Now Garm howls loud | before Gnipahellir,
The fetters will burst, | and the wolf run free;
Much do I know, | and more can see
Of the fate of the gods, | the mighty in fight.
Repeated refrain stanza. Not much to say lol
Originally posted by Heka View Post59. Now do I see | the earth anew
Rise all green | from the waves again;
The cataracts fall, | and the eagle flies,
And fish he catches | beneath the cliffs.
The rebuilding of the world. These stanzas are all pretty self explanatory... but again, are we talking about all the worlds or just one?
Originally posted by Heka View Post60. The gods in Ithavoll | meet together,
Of the terrible girdler | of earth they talk
And the mighty past | they call to mind,
And the ancient runes | of the Ruler of Gods.
And at the end of the day, the crux of this entire poem is 'what is the significance of Ragnarok'? When did or does it occur? Has it happned yet or is it still coming? Is it an actual event that takes place in the Otherworlds or is it a metaphorical telling of the presence of the gods here on our plane of existence? Is it a telling of the rise of Christianity, as some people theorise?
Comment
-
Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
Comment
-
ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic
RIP
I have never been across the way
Seen the desert and the birds
You cut your hair short
Like a shush to an insult
The world had been yelling
Since the day you were born
Revolting with anger
While it smiled like it was cute
That everything was shit.
- J. Wylder
Comment
-
Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
*CoughGardenofEdenCough* Honestly, I could wish for less plagiarism from the Bible, all we need is a lion and a lamb.
Hropt is a heiti for Odin. Nothing further to add.
See my comment for verse 61.
Honir shall chosethat can mean both wood, tree, twig, wand or something made from wood, and hlut which means fate or can refer to cast lots to foretell fate (i.e. divination). So may be one of several things. Some believe that it refers to The World Tree reborn, others that Honir casts wands to see the future,
the wood (twigs) of fate
and son's of both [brothers]
shall build dwellings there
the wide windhome [the sky]
Do you know enough or what?
And where on Earth does the translator get Tveggi as a person from? Tveggja is as far as I know an Old Norse word for 'two', that can also be used in the meaning 'both'.
So... only the kings and their lines survive? I assume the drottnir here refers to humans, for though the Aesir are referred to as rulers at times, it is by the word regin not drottnir, a word seemingly reserved for human rulers.
Then comes the regentNearly every scholar on this subject you can hunt down will tell you that the whole verse was added later by Christians, to infer that even the ancient Volva's prophecy spoke of the coming of the Christian God. I concur with this hypothesis.
to gain his lordship,
powerful from above
he who rules all
he then judges
and cases abides
the world he sets
as it should be.
Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
Comment
-
ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic
RIP
I have never been across the way
Seen the desert and the birds
You cut your hair short
Like a shush to an insult
The world had been yelling
Since the day you were born
Revolting with anger
While it smiled like it was cute
That everything was shit.
- J. Wylder
Comment
-
Sr. Member
- Apr 2013
- 463
- If you want to know, ask.
- female
- Well I'm not in Kansas anymore.
- Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less travelled by. Now where in Hades am I?
Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
"Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)
Comment
-
ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic
RIP
I have never been across the way
Seen the desert and the birds
You cut your hair short
Like a shush to an insult
The world had been yelling
Since the day you were born
Revolting with anger
While it smiled like it was cute
That everything was shit.
- J. Wylder
Comment
Comment