Honour in todays combat.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

f the holy ones are honorable in such matters then we should also strive to be honorable in such matters..

Have you read the saga's lately? Do you really see a lot of honour there? Do you think rape is honorable? Because Odin is guilty of that one.

The idea that the gods are perfect beings that are put on pedistools honestly baffles me.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

It is far from silly to me.If the holy ones are honorable in such matters then we should also strive to be honorable in such matters.To approach something with honor is to approach with wisdom and wisdom makes one to flourish.

Bolded mine. Actually i'd say no, more developments and technological leaps forward have occurred as a result of war and conflict than any other human endeavor. Nor would I say the holy ones are honorable in such things as your seemingly implying here.

[Riothamus12]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

I have one word for you: Ragnarok.

As far as the OP goes, I think the idea of honour in commbat is entirely subjective and very much a social construct of the time. I also find the concept silly. I have no moral issues with stabbing someone in the back in the dark if that's what it takes to defend me and mine.

I think Odin would find a lot more "honour" in someone's willingness to live with their choices to get the job done then being massacred in a "stand up fight" they can't possibly win. However if someone is "just following orders" and not taking responsibility even within their own mind, that is lacking in honour.

It is far from silly to me.If the holy ones are honorable in such matters then we should also strive to be honorable in such matters.To approach something with honor is to approach with wisdom and wisdom makes one to flourish.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

The holy ones are not wanton in their destruction, war is.

I have one word for you: Ragnarok.

As far as the OP goes, I think the idea of honour in commbat is entirely subjective and very much a social construct of the time. I also find the concept silly. I have no moral issues with stabbing someone in the back in the dark if that's what it takes to defend me and mine.

I think Odin would find a lot more "honour" in someone's willingness to live with their choices to get the job done then being massacred in a "stand up fight" they can't possibly win. However if someone is "just following orders" and not taking responsibility even within their own mind, that is lacking in honour.

[Riothamus12]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

I generally consider war contemptible even to deities of war. One can have a warrior soul without killing. I have no compunctions about laying someone out to defend myself but only if they stand as a direct threat to me. The holy ones are not wanton in their destruction, war is. I think much of modern warfare is even less honorable than it once was in some ways. In a way I think people if they should decide to go to war should have to get in close so they can understand the weight of what they're doing.If war is ever truly justifiable it should always be a last resort.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

listverse.com/2010/02/19/10-astounding-actions-earning-a-medal-of-honor/

I think if I were collecting valorous combatants for my own personal army of the fallen and left out people like those in the list linked above then my judgement would be seriously impaired. I also think Odin is almost certainly wiser than I am.

[Gleb]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

There is a saying in Hebrew:
"Life and death are in the hands of tongue."

- - - Updated - - -

You can use also your mental training, and the enemy's weapons against him.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

I tend to think that the Honor in today's military is driven more by the concept of whether one is a warrior, a solider or simply a merc.

The Merc joins the military simply for the money and no other reason, it's not about being a comrade or brother / sister-in-arms. It's not about defense and protection of their home, hearth and kin / kindred. They may make a career of it or sell their skill to the highest bidder but it never goes deeper than that. Sadly I think many of them may have started out as a solider or warrior but battle becomes more valuable to them than anything else. They maybe excellent fighters or killers but they loose something in their ability to inspire and motivate by their mere presence before others.

The solider joins for more than money but again it's still more of a job than a calling and the brother / sisterhood of arms that brings them to the ranks. They may fight to protect home, hearth and kin & kindred but will step away the moment it is done. Their whole lives maybe committed to their "Job" but it is never the full focus of their lives and purpose. Again they maybe good or even excellent fighters or killers but they to lack something that allows them to inspire or motivate those about them. They lack the "Presence" that allows them to fulfill that great role that changes the outcome of things simply by being there.

The warrior though joins because of honor and commitment. He / She trains above and beyond the limits of what is acceptable fully training the mind and body to do the dance of battle for they know the battle occurs as much upon the battlefield as upon the mental landscape. They fight for home, hearth, kin and kindred but see it in both companion and opponent thus respecting their foe. In many ways they train for battle but long for peace for I think peace is more demanding of their skills than battle. Again maybe exceptional fighters / killers but their strength flows more from inspiration upon the battlefield in those about them. Those who inspire and motivate everyone around them even when things are dark and death all but a certain outcome. Many times rank and position of no importance in inspiring though they maybe rewarded by the bestowal of rank, position, awards and privilege.

The sad part I suppose is that to me many under the heathen and pagan umbrella's do not see death and combat outside of the military thus fail to see the battle that is performed by say someone like a firefighter who battles the flame or the medic who battles death. Fail to see that a weapon does not have to be an edged or blunt force item but can equally be a hose or words.

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

Odin is a wise god, indeed. I think that Odin understands that technologies have changed significantly during the years. There is honour in using automatic rifles, grenades and vehiles as well.
Technologies change, but the honour remains.

Agreed. For me and my belief, its not the weapon used, its the conduct and discretion used when you are using the weapon. Especially if the enemy is using the same weapon, than you have no given advantage, except for your training and ability.

[Gleb]

Re: Honour in todays combat.

Odin is a wise god, indeed. I think that Odin understands that technologies have changed significantly during the years. There is honour in using automatic rifles, grenades and vehiles as well.
Technologies change, but the honour remains.

[Doc_Holliday]

I've seen quite a few Heathens say things along the lines of "Anybody in the military will not go to Valhalla because there is no honour in today's combat."
I think its not true because I think Odin is an extremely wise god, and because he is wise he understands that the times of war have changed. I'm positive he doesn't expect Heathens to charge in with a bearded war axe to fight the insurgents or any enemies with fully automatic rifles, rocket propelled grenades, armoured vehicles etc. etc.

What are your opinions on this?