all?
-
life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
"But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."
John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper
"You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."
Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis
-
Rick, meant no disrespect. I do praise your knowledge highly, please don't take me the wrong way. But we know the writing to be dated late 1200's when Christianity was a power house. So, who's to say they didn't have a hand in changing and or manufacturing a different story? There are many things we know Christianity altered, and this tale could be one of them.Originally posted by Rick View Post
As well, there are many theories that Christianity also adopted Baldr as a figure of Jesus, with Hodur as Peter, who ends up betraying Jesus, ending his life (Loki and the Mistletoe)
These aren't theories that can be proven of course, and I realize that. Many years of studying what we know will give you an extensive knowledge on, well, what we know. But there are many things lost in time. Many secrets. History is written by the victor, and the victorious people of the time were Christians. Who's to say they didn't alter our stories."In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
- Finn's Saga
http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/
Comment
-
To drive us all crazy wondering about it? Slick, those crazy Christians!
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Comment
-
Comment
-
Rick wasn't talking about himself, he was talking about Henry Bellows, whom he referenced in his first reply. Having said that, Rick is very learned and has a lot more experience than you and I combined, so I can see how you misinterpreted his comment.Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
Personally, while I think it's probable that Christian monks and scholars reinterpreted the oral stories when they wrote them down, I don't buy into the wholescale Chrisitian conspiracy idea. Yes it's possible. But we have modern and relatively recent scholars and academics who made (and make) it their life's work to know the poetry of the time inside out. There's a specific reason we consider them secondary sources and should be reading them during our own amateur research. That's what Rick was getting at. I own the Bellow's translation of the Poetic Edda, and it includes extensive introductory comments and footnotes about what Bellows considers to be interpolations and corruptions, some of which are about likely Christian additions (which amounts to a line here and there, not entire poems or lays).
I also don't buy into the whole Baldr/Hodhr is really just a literary cognate for Jesus/Peter thing (or that Lif and Lifthrasir are really Adam and Eve). If we look at world mythology from a purely academic mindset, we can draw all sorts of correlations between various stories from various cultures. Take that study far enough and you end up with a core set of stories and themes that are apparently common to all world cultures... which is the same process that bought us core shamanism and archetypes. Which is not to say that this line of study doesn't have merit, because it does... but it's a flawed base of 'evidence' to pin an entire cross-cultural hypothesis on. I think it's more likely that they did what the Romans did... recognized similarities in the themes between the two existing mythologies and capitalised on that. Religious syncretism is not a wholly modern concept.
Yes, I absolutely believe that the primary resources we have today have been corrupted to some extent by the people who wrote them down. Yes, I absolutely agree that the majority of those people doing the writing down were Christian. But I absolutely do not believe that they created stories and poems from scratch in order to aid in the conversion of the northern people.
At the core, I think that we actually agree... but I think that we're sitting at opposite ends of the 'Christians could have altered our Lore' scale.
Honestly, I don't really have a set opinion about whether Ragnarok has or hasn't happened yet. I think it's a genuine story rather than Christian propaganda, but accept that there may be some Christian overlays to the original manuscripts that have survived. I think there is enough 'evidence' to support a number of hypothesis, which is why this is still such a debate amongst some Heathen and NT groups. But honestly... I just don't find it relevant enough to my practice to get all worked up about it. I think that it's self evident that the deities who will/have meet/met their doom at Ragnarok still have enough influence here in Thisworld to be considered 'live and well'. I haven't found compelling enough evidence to make a decision about whether I think it has happened or not, and I'm inclined to let the jury stay out until more evidence presents itself.
- - - Updated - - -
And at the end of the day, this right here ^ is a pretty big hole in the 'Christians fabricated the story to increase acceptance of YHVH' hypothesis.Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
(And is also why MO remains the undisputed king of one-line hypothesis-breakers :nod:. Even though this one's got two lines... you get my drift.)Comment
-
life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
"But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."
John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper
"You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."
Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis
Comment
-
Comment
-
"In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
- Finn's Saga
http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/
Comment
Comment