Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

With this I completely agree; however, in my experience, many different things can "work" in the broad sense of the word.

Obviously, or there wouldn't be a wide range of practices and dissaplines.

It sounds as if you are concerned with evocation

Yes, something Silver suggests several times to add to the power of spells. Thus my comment.

[Gardenia]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

I did not find anything in it that would correspond to the criticisms that are generally leveled at her, though it was published only 5 years ago so maybe she took care not to cross the lines that made people so angry.

Some time ago I picked up one of her more recent books (2008) from a second hand shop, HedgeWitch. I have a few of her much older books, and I have the same issues with them many people have (her horrible history is a big issue of mine), but being a hedgewitch I figured I should really give the book a go, and I tried to do so with an open mind... but, the thing is? She wrote an entire book that from the title you'd think would be about hedgecraft, but it's not. There's nothing in there about the actual hedgewitch tradition.

If she'd written this book under under some other name? IMO, it'd just be another mediocre book on witchcraft. Not that great, pretty basic and bland, light and fuzzy, but overall (from what I remember), nothing extremely horrible, either, you know? She didn't do that, though. She constantly makes references to hedgewitches, what they do, etc, and none of it has anything to do with hedgecraft.

And I think that, really, sums up my problems with her. It's not that I have a problem with her personal practice, she can practice whatever she wants. The problem is that she is very bad with her facts, bad with her history, bad with misuse of terms and the like, and she's lied about her own history as well. She's not the only one to do those sorts of things, but she's done a lot of it.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Some time ago I picked up one of her more recent books (2008) from a second hand shop, HedgeWitch. I have a few of her much older books, and I have the same issues with them many people have (her horrible history is a big issue of mine), but being a hedgewitch I figured I should really give the book a go, and I tried to do so with an open mind... but, the thing is? She wrote an entire book that from the title you'd think would be about hedgecraft, but it's not. There's nothing in there about the actual hedgewitch tradition.

If she'd written this book under under some other name? IMO, it'd just be another mediocre book on witchcraft. Not that great, pretty basic and bland, light and fuzzy, but overall (from what I remember), nothing extremely horrible, either, you know? She didn't do that, though. She constantly makes references to hedgewitches, what they do, etc, and none of it has anything to do with hedgecraft.

And I think that, really, sums up my problems with her. It's not that I have a problem with her personal practice, she can practice whatever she wants. The problem is that she is very bad with her facts, bad with her history, bad with misuse of terms and the like, and she's lied about her own history as well. She's not the only one to do those sorts of things, but she's done a lot of it.

That's a similar argument to what she's done with her so called Pow Wow book. I tried to read parts of it but had to keep putting it down as it was so bad and didn't match hardly anything that dealt with the Pennsylvania Dutch practices that are known as Pow Wow. Especially given that her major message is very anti-Christian yet Pow Wow was very much built about the bible and biblical versus being used for magic.

[nbdy]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Some time ago I picked up one of her more recent books (2008) from a second hand shop, HedgeWitch. I have a few of her much older books, and I have the same issues with them many people have (her horrible history is a big issue of mine), but being a hedgewitch I figured I should really give the book a go, and I tried to do so with an open mind... but, the thing is? She wrote an entire book that from the title you'd think would be about hedgecraft, but it's not. There's nothing in there about the actual hedgewitch tradition.

If she'd written this book under under some other name? IMO, it'd just be another mediocre book on witchcraft. Not that great, pretty basic and bland, light and fuzzy, but overall (from what I remember), nothing extremely horrible, either, you know? She didn't do that, though. She constantly makes references to hedgewitches, what they do, etc, and none of it has anything to do with hedgecraft.

And I think that, really, sums up my problems with her. It's not that I have a problem with her personal practice, she can practice whatever she wants. The problem is that she is very bad with her facts, bad with her history, bad with misuse of terms and the like, and she's lied about her own history as well. She's not the only one to do those sorts of things, but she's done a lot of it.

Yup, that's the one I read. There is nothing about the book, from the cover to the doodle art that enhances the text that should lead a reader to expect an academic text; however, I recall nothing that was dangerous or misleading, or any slams on any group. A lot of advice to meditate or do research about this that or the other, and organized in a way that makes sense. Is it a book for a seasoned witch? Probably not. Is it a book that will lead a person astray? I simply could not see that. For what it is worth, I have seen and experienced the level of venom I have seen directed at Ravenwolf, so *shrug* whatever.

[Gardenia]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Yup, that's the one I read. There is nothing about the book, from the cover to the doodle art that enhances the text that should lead a reader to expect an academic text; however, I recall nothing that was dangerous or misleading, or any slams on any group.

I never said I expected a purely academic text. However, if someone writes a book called HedgeWitch, and repeatedly makes claims about what a hedgewitch is, what they do, etc... then I don't think it's unreasonable to actually expect that the book actually be about hedgecraft - and it's simply not. There's nothing in the book that's about the tradition she's claiming to write about. None of the core elements of hedgecraft are addressed at any point. That is absolutely misleading. What else would you call it?

It's like writing a book called "25 Apple Pie Recipes" that actually contains a dozen recipes for chocolate cupcakes. I mean, they're both desserts, sure, but they're certainly not the same thing. And while most people would probably realize that their apple pie book is actually about chocolate cupcakes (and they may even still enjoy the book despite that), the problem is that someone who's pretty new to hedgecraft, or perhaps never heard of it before? They're probably not going to know their book isn't really about what it claims to be about... and I'm sorry, but that is a problem, and it is harmful to those wanting to learn about hedgecraft (and it is also a bit harmful to existing practitioners who have their tradition totally watered down and misrepresented).

Like I said in my first post - had she given this book a different title, had she not brought a specific tradition into it and proceed to totally misrepresent said tradition? I would have much less of a problem with it... but she didn't do that, and I honestly don't see how it's not misleading to claim your book is about something that it's not. It's quite a careless thing to do.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Is it a book that will lead a person astray? I simply could not see that.

Seriously? When she goes on about what ___________ IS and DOES (something she does in all her books, regardless of subject) stating these things as facts, you really can't see how that would lead someone astray?

If she was relating what she does in her own practice that would be one thing. But that's not what she's doing and that's why it's problematic.

[Auseklis]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

I just don't even approach the New Age section of bookstores anymore because that's the kind of thing I seem to always encounter there.

Ditto... I prefer odd and quirky little second hand book stores that have few little hidden treasures not often found in commercial book stores.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Ditto... I prefer odd and quirky little second hand book stores that have few little hidden treasures not often found in commercial book stores.

Oh yeah. And now town has TONS.

Not only is it less money, but the hunt is what I love

[nbdy]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

These are legitimate reasons to be annoyed, but there is a difference between finding some one's approach to things annoying and declaring them dangerous. Where are all the folks bemoaning how Ravenwolf ruined their lives and/or warped their practices? She's been publishing for 20 years or so, surely I should have encountered at least one poor misguided soul who has been damaged by what she writes. Instead I hear from a lot of seasoned witches who are irritated by her, but I've yet to encounter anyone who actually feels that she has brought any kind of harm into their lives. I'll grant that I have no idea what is said in any other book she has written, but apparently people recover from it without too much distress.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

These are legitimate reasons to be annoyed, but there is a difference between finding some one's approach to things annoying and declaring them dangerous.

And I've explained WHY I consider her books dangerous. Something you apparently decided to ignore for some unknown reason.

Where are all the folks bemoaning how Ravenwolf ruined their lives and/or warped their practices?

Right, because only extremes count *rolls eyes*

So where are all the people who have won the lottery with her spells?

She's been publishing for 20 years or so, surely I should have encountered at least one poor misguided soul who has been damaged by what she writes.

Funny, I've encountered plenty. People trying to tell me I'm practising wrong (I've been on my path 18+ years) because Silver says to do it __________ way got old a LONG time ago. And in case you're wondering, the last one happened during a class I was teaching, which had NOTHING to do with Silver or her practices. It was about me and mine, something I'm always up front with the students about.

I'll grant that I have no idea what is said in any other book she has written, but apparently people recover from it without too much distress.

There's no reason they should need to recover at all. Nor do I see any reason to coddle a self-serving author that hasn't offered anything more than the same rehashed and ill-researched information.

Now why are you white knighting her when you admit you haven't even read her books?

Here's a question for you: do you engage in apologetics for Crowley too?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

These are legitimate reasons to be annoyed, but there is a difference between finding some one's approach to things annoying and declaring them dangerous. Where are all the folks bemoaning how Ravenwolf ruined their lives and/or warped their practices? She's been publishing for 20 years or so, surely I should have encountered at least one poor misguided soul who has been damaged by what she writes. Instead I hear from a lot of seasoned witches who are irritated by her, but I've yet to encounter anyone who actually feels that she has brought any kind of harm into their lives. I'll grant that I have no idea what is said in any other book she has written, but apparently people recover from it without too much distress.

I only know of one person who actually came out and spoke about not only Silver's teaching but also attended a camp with her. She went into some detail as to how she was treated, what was said and even specific things said to her by the teacher and her so called inner council. Unfortunately the posting no longer exists as the site (can't recall if it was actually Mystic Wicks (MS) or the old Mind-N-Magic (M-N-M) which went down a few months ago but I think of one were to search they might find it repeated on other sites as the author of the post said she had shared it on a number of forums. I should add what made it worse for the person was she was disabled and that was also held against her when she asked for placement near bathroom facilities and ability to get about.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Mystickwicks has been inactive for a couple months now. Had an account there (not under this name) that I never got around to using a lot. Don't know the other forum you mentioned to comment on of it crashed and when.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Mystickwicks has been inactive for a couple months now. Had an account there (not under this name) that I never got around to using a lot. Don't know the other forum you mentioned to comment on of it crashed and when.

M-N-M as a general occult site went down 2 or 3 years ago perhaps more resulting in the creation of the Agora which went down about two weeks ago now. M-N-M itself was revamped and became IP Hellenismos.com, site name now Olympianismos I think it was though it had another name for a short period before it changed servers and such a few months ago.

MW had a rough last few months as it suffered some serious hacking attacks. There was talk of one of the owners trying to bring it back up but it appears to have died for good now though some of the original members did create a short lived invite only site I understood from one of them. I was a guide on MW and oversaw the Shamanic sub-forum specifically for a few years.

[Raphaeline]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

If she was relating what she does in her own practice that would be one thing.

I haven't bought but a few books in a while concerning spirituality because the kind of thing I'm looking for is usually found on fellow Pagans' blogs. When Pagans write books, it's to tell the reader what they should be doing, whereas you can find plenty of informed opinions online by people who are just interested in sharing their own story. I can take that information and research it on my own. Most books published with a Pagan audience in mind don't apply to my interests and beliefs anyway.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

I haven't bought but a few books in a while concerning spirituality because the kind of thing I'm looking for is usually found on fellow Pagans' blogs. When Pagans write books, it's to tell the reader what they should be doing, whereas you can find plenty of informed opinions online by people who are just interested in sharing their own story. I can take that information and research it on my own. Most books published with a Pagan audience in mind don't apply to my interests and beliefs anyway.

I love books as a physical medium, but my browser bookmarks menu is full of blogs and discussion boards.

And I totally agree about doing your own research. Books, blogs and what have you are a great place to start, but a terribly place to stop.