Initiation Question

[thalassa]

Re: Initiation Question

IMO: One can self-dedicate, but one cannot self-initiate. By definition, initiation (in this context) is something that is done TO you as a method of bringing you into a group.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Initiation Question

The process of initiation occurs prior to the ceremony. Initiation is a construct that strips away the lies you have learned to trust and replaces them with new things to learn. The process challenges your physical, mental, and spiritual self to do things that you have no idea that you can do. The final question in the process tells more about what you have learned than any of the tests before it.

When you join the military you go through boot camp - it is the military version of initiation. While self initiation is possible it would take more self denial and hard work than most people wish to experience.

[MourningStar1719]

Re: Initiation Question

If you plan to fulfill a solitary path, then there is a self-initiation process that you can do yourself You basically cast a circle and call upon the deities of your primary pantheon. Meditate over it. DO what you believe is best for you. As with all other matters relating to religion, spirituality, and magick only you can know what is right for you. Go with the flow. See what you can come up with. Join Athena or another helpful deity in your astral temple and have a sort of question and answer session with said deity. They would be much more help than any one here. I promise you that much.

[magusphredde]

Re: Initiation Question

Mrs. P ... just listened to your Tam Campbell interview ... BRILLIANT ...

[RowanModig]

Re: Initiation Question

Thank you all!
My path has had some bumps recently and I'm just now coming back to the forum and reading through the thread has really helped me.
:^^:

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Initiation Question

This is probably the best explanation of the degree system in Wicca (her blog is quire good in that regard) that I have come across online (this is very close to the tradition I was initiated in), though its also been related to Jung--first degree being the shadow Self, second being the anima/animus, and third being the entire Self (and I don't think the two are mutually exclusive).

I recall when I first started looking into Wicca that there were three degree levels. Yet each level might have various steps one had to complete before they were deemed as having completed the degree. Then it seemed I came across some that had upwards of five levels but also included Mother, Maiden, Crone, Warrior and want to say girl as the prepubescent that differed from Maiden. Then it seemed the more neo it became the more variants of what each level meant and hoped to achieve seemed to change.

The shadow, the anima / animus and then the total self pretty much matches what I though and was exposed to.

[thalassa]

Re: Initiation Question

This is probably the best explanation of the degree system in Wicca (her blog is quire good in that regard) that I have come across online (this is very close to the tradition I was initiated in), though its also been related to Jung--first degree being the shadow Self, second being the anima/animus, and third being the entire Self (and I don't think the two are mutually exclusive).

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Initiation Question

Very interesting. The more I find out the more I understand how superficial my knowledge really is.

Understand I am not Wiccan so my perspective is jaded to a degree. Regarding knowledge I've always assumed about 50 percent of Wicca is revealed and structured in both knowledge, format and to a degree expectation. That also means about 50 percent is also mystical or enlightened knowledge that may or may not ever be provable based upon mundane resources. Perhaps moving into the category of Shared Personal Gnosis (SPG) in that the mystical experience may be close enough that the base elements can be recognized in the experiences of others. Yet they can never be exactly the same so at the same time form a very deep core of Unverifiable / Un-provable Personal Gnosis (UPG) which each practitioner will build their beliefs upon.

So most of your knowledge that will be used to discuss, in my opinion, will always be the 50 percent that is structured and verifiable. Yet the issue there is that many of those truths will also hinge upon which group you align to and with. So saying ones knowledge is superficial is really not a truth outside of ones own desire to be accepted by or within a certain grouping. It also tends to remove or play down your own personal interests and idea's which greatly color both your UPG and SPG which may or may not align with how the outside group acknowledges or understands the given material.

So don't sell your knowledge, desire or intent short because it doesn't neatly align with some other groups layout of what they think things should be like.

[gelman66]

Re: Initiation Question

Very interesting. The more I find out the more I understand how superficial my knowledge really is.

[Serria]

Re: Initiation Question

You can identify as a Wiccan when you truly feel committed and that this is the religion for you. When I started, I actually initiated after only 2 months since discovering Wicca. I don't recommend this because I'm self-aware so I knew at that point that I didn't want to be Christian anymore, that I wanted something different and the separating from Christianity had occurred a god year before I stumbled upon Wicca. It was just a matter of, who do I wanna be. Wicca just clicked. It just felt right. To me, it was like coming home to your mom after a long sleep-away camp. It was like it was always there, I just couldn't find it. At the time, I was 16, and I actually joined the forum a year or so later, and here I am! 19 and still on my path.

That's just how I did it. Now, you can be coven initiated if you like, but it isn't required. It's not like just because they're a coven, means they are more truly Wiccan then a self-initiated Solitary. A lot of people will do a Year and a Day of learning, researching, and practicing the faith before they identify because that Year is kind of like a trial period to really learn what it's all about and to make sure it's the right path for you.

I hope my reply helped!

- - - Updated - - -

You might enjoy this interview I did with a lineaged HP, Tam Campbell
You can find it here: http://tylluanpenry.podbean.com/e/in...-tam-campbell/

May I just say, your voice is soothing!

[Jembru]

Re: Initiation Question

I thought I'd pipe in because I have been going over my past books of shadows and recalling details about my path so far that I had forgotten. To me, my most important initiations were those I did myself. So much so, that having gone over the books, I am planning on conducting another to mark the most recent changes and my starting out on a new leg of my spiritual experience. My first self-initiation (or dedication, as some would prefer to call it), wasn't until I turned 18 in 2000, which was 4 years after I first discovered paganism and witchcraft. I had actually been 'initiated' into a teen coven before this point, which of course didn't last beyond high school (this teen coven btw, is how I always know when I started my path; the founding members had seen the movie 'the Craft' in the cinema, which came out in 1996 ^^).

I then took a second self-initiation in 2005, 10 years ago almost exactly! I was initiated into 2 other covens (neither of which were lineaged, although one allegedly had the input of a gardnerian HPS who critiqued and advised on the core liturgy. I say 'alleged' because I never met said HPS or even knew her name, and simply corresponded with her via a solitary wiccan from over the river who called himself 'Earthlore'*), as well as being initiated into the Fellowship of Isis, but these initiations always felt simply to be initiations into the group. In fact, my first and for me most significant, proper coven had a rule in which we weren't to discuss our degree or position within to coven to anyone outside of the coven, because such ranks were meaningless to anyone outside. Some traditions race you through to third in a few years, while others require much more stringent training and experience to be accumulated before members can move on, so that that two second degree witches from two separate covens (even within the same tradition in some cases), can be quite different in terms of knowledge, experience and spiritual development. Initiation into and within groups were meaningful and nice, but never felt as spiritually significant or intimate as the two initiations I carried out in private.

Sorry for the odd detail about my wiccan days, but reading through my BoS has thrown back loads of things I'd just totally forgotten, and helped me to reconnect with an earlier part of myself. It's been a really nice experience.

*Incidentally, if this person sounds familiar to anyone.. if indeed you're reading this yourself, I'd really love to get back in touch.

You might enjoy this interview I did with a lineaged HP, Tam Campbell
You can find it here: http://tylluanpenry.podbean.com/e/in...-tam-campbell/

I'm going to start listening to your podcasts while I'm at work! It will be a pleasant break from the constant chirping of Japanese I listen to. You've got such a nice soothing voice.

[RowanModig]

Re: Initiation Question

Thank you

[thalassa]

Re: Initiation Question

You can be Wiccan without being initiated*, but you won't be recognized certain types of Wiccan (Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Blue Star, Georgian, etc) without being initiated. And, if you want to go into a lineaged tradition, they likely won't recognize your self-study and practice as applicable to their tradition. Part of the process pre-initiation is a matter of testing comittment and fit. Not everyone is *right* for the group and not every group is *right* for the person...



*TBH, anyone that at this point refuses to acknowledge self-dedicated solo practitioners of Wicca is just a troglodyte. While (IMO) its perfectly fair to be (hopefully constructively) critical of some solitary practices as being "Wiccan", a blanket statement of "there's no such thing..." is just moronic because people have been doing un-covened, non-traditional Wicca for at least 40-50 years now.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Initiation Question

You might enjoy this interview I did with a lineaged HP, Tam Campbell
You can find it here: http://tylluanpenry.podbean.com/e/in...-tam-campbell/

[RowanModig]

Re: Initiation Question

I identify more with Celtic and Norse mythology and those gods and goddesses speak to me far more than any others. I guess that would make me eclectic or Seax?