Re: Insulted for your beliefs?
What does wearing something of religious symbolism have to do with planning your wardrobe for others?
I spent six years in the Navy. Uniform regs say one necklace, not visible; one earring per ear, 4-6mm in diameter, gold for officers and chief, silver for enlisted, pearl authorized for dinner and formal dress uniforms (women only); rings, one per hand, plus wedding set, none on thumbs; tattoos also have their own set of regulations. When it comes to religious symbols:
I bring this up because its quite easy to wear religious symbols without anyone seeing them. I know this, because I did it for six years. I was also openly Pagan. And I was openly Pagan without visibly wearing any Pagan religious symbol. The idea that one needs to wear some outward sign of their religion to be open about their religion is false.
And I point this out because, at some point (and I'm not thinking so much about NA's OP, but a post I saw of FB about some oh-so-persecuted soul, asked to remove an item of jewelry because it caused disruption with customers or coworkers)...I have to wonder, are you* really wearing it because it has meaning, or because it causes conversation and controversy?
On one hand, I don't care why you wear something or not, I'd just like to say that the rules were followed in a way that is fair (and I NEVER had a problem being Pagan in the Navy--I had more problems being in the military as a Pagan). On the other hand, as a (at least on Friday afternoons) realist, I think its a bit naive to expect fairness to be routinely doled out simply because its the right thing to do. In which case, yeah, if you run around letting your _________ flag fly (whatever your _________ might be) simply to cause controversy, you are an asshole and you deserve to be shit on**--and this goes whether one takes after Fred Phelps or Laurie Cabot when they walk around the mall.
This is America. If you want to express yourself, learn to embrace your offendedness. It means you have the right to expression, because so do they.
*Universal you, not necessarily you-you.
**And I'd like to reiterate, that I'm not saying just because you wear visible religious symbols that you are trying to cause controversy. What I'm saying is that if it is the religious symbol that is important (assuming its not physically attached to you), then (while unfair and irritating) the act of wearing the religious symbol is not lessened by it not being visible.
ETA: Having religion is like having a penis. Its okay to have it, and its okay to play with it to make yourself happy. Its even okay to use it to make other consenting adults happy. But its never okay to take it out of your pants and wave it at strangers or small children or to force it on people that aren't interested. Also, one should never vote with their penis (or their religion). And if you make money off your penis (or your religion), you should pay taxes for it. And, when you forget to put pants on it, expect that people will take shots at it, or occasionally with it.
Originally posted by Redfaery
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I spent six years in the Navy. Uniform regs say one necklace, not visible; one earring per ear, 4-6mm in diameter, gold for officers and chief, silver for enlisted, pearl authorized for dinner and formal dress uniforms (women only); rings, one per hand, plus wedding set, none on thumbs; tattoos also have their own set of regulations. When it comes to religious symbols:
(a) Jewelry bearing religious inscriptions or otherwise indicating affiliation or beliefis subject to existing Service uniform regulations under the same standard that applies to jewelrythat is not of a religious nature.
(snip)
5. In accordance with section 774 of Reference (eg), members of the Military Services may wearitems of religious apparel while in uniform, except where the items would interfere with theperformance of military duties or the item is not neat and conservative. The MilitaryDepartments shall prescribe regulations on the wear of such items.
Factors used to determine ifan item of religious apparel interferes with military duties include, but are not limited to, whetheror not the item:
a. Impairs the safe and effective operation of weapons, military equipment, or machinery.
b. Poses a health or safety hazard to the Service member wearing the religious appareland/or others.
c. Interferes with the wear or proper function of special or protective clothing or equipment(e.g., helmets, flak jackets, flight suits, camouflaged uniforms, gas protective masks, wet suits,and crash and rescue equipment).
d. Otherwise impairs the accomplishment of the military mission.
6. Religious items or articles not visible or otherwise apparent may be worn with the uniformprovided they shall not interfere with the performance of the member’s military duties, asdiscussed in paragraph 5 of this enclosure, or interfere with the proper wearing of any authorizedarticle of the uniform.
7. A complete ban on wearing any visible items of religious apparel may be appropriate undercircumstances in which the Service member’s duties, the military mission, or the maintenance ofdiscipline require absolute uniformity. For example, members may be prohibited from wearingvisible religious apparel while wearing historical or ceremonial uniforms; participating in reviewformations, parades, honor or color guards, and similar ceremonial details and functions
DODI 1300.17
(snip)
5. In accordance with section 774 of Reference (eg), members of the Military Services may wearitems of religious apparel while in uniform, except where the items would interfere with theperformance of military duties or the item is not neat and conservative. The MilitaryDepartments shall prescribe regulations on the wear of such items.
Factors used to determine ifan item of religious apparel interferes with military duties include, but are not limited to, whetheror not the item:
a. Impairs the safe and effective operation of weapons, military equipment, or machinery.
b. Poses a health or safety hazard to the Service member wearing the religious appareland/or others.
c. Interferes with the wear or proper function of special or protective clothing or equipment(e.g., helmets, flak jackets, flight suits, camouflaged uniforms, gas protective masks, wet suits,and crash and rescue equipment).
d. Otherwise impairs the accomplishment of the military mission.
6. Religious items or articles not visible or otherwise apparent may be worn with the uniformprovided they shall not interfere with the performance of the member’s military duties, asdiscussed in paragraph 5 of this enclosure, or interfere with the proper wearing of any authorizedarticle of the uniform.
7. A complete ban on wearing any visible items of religious apparel may be appropriate undercircumstances in which the Service member’s duties, the military mission, or the maintenance ofdiscipline require absolute uniformity. For example, members may be prohibited from wearingvisible religious apparel while wearing historical or ceremonial uniforms; participating in reviewformations, parades, honor or color guards, and similar ceremonial details and functions
DODI 1300.17
I bring this up because its quite easy to wear religious symbols without anyone seeing them. I know this, because I did it for six years. I was also openly Pagan. And I was openly Pagan without visibly wearing any Pagan religious symbol. The idea that one needs to wear some outward sign of their religion to be open about their religion is false.
And I point this out because, at some point (and I'm not thinking so much about NA's OP, but a post I saw of FB about some oh-so-persecuted soul, asked to remove an item of jewelry because it caused disruption with customers or coworkers)...I have to wonder, are you* really wearing it because it has meaning, or because it causes conversation and controversy?
On one hand, I don't care why you wear something or not, I'd just like to say that the rules were followed in a way that is fair (and I NEVER had a problem being Pagan in the Navy--I had more problems being in the military as a Pagan). On the other hand, as a (at least on Friday afternoons) realist, I think its a bit naive to expect fairness to be routinely doled out simply because its the right thing to do. In which case, yeah, if you run around letting your _________ flag fly (whatever your _________ might be) simply to cause controversy, you are an asshole and you deserve to be shit on**--and this goes whether one takes after Fred Phelps or Laurie Cabot when they walk around the mall.
This is America. If you want to express yourself, learn to embrace your offendedness. It means you have the right to expression, because so do they.
*Universal you, not necessarily you-you.
**And I'd like to reiterate, that I'm not saying just because you wear visible religious symbols that you are trying to cause controversy. What I'm saying is that if it is the religious symbol that is important (assuming its not physically attached to you), then (while unfair and irritating) the act of wearing the religious symbol is not lessened by it not being visible.
ETA: Having religion is like having a penis. Its okay to have it, and its okay to play with it to make yourself happy. Its even okay to use it to make other consenting adults happy. But its never okay to take it out of your pants and wave it at strangers or small children or to force it on people that aren't interested. Also, one should never vote with their penis (or their religion). And if you make money off your penis (or your religion), you should pay taxes for it. And, when you forget to put pants on it, expect that people will take shots at it, or occasionally with it.
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