Arizona gunman and gun rights

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1385.msg29133#msg29133 date=1295198367]
I don't think day care or having both parents work is what's destroying the family either. When I grew up I was in day care because my mom worked, and we still ate all our meals together and played board games and stuff, and went on holidays together. I think that as long as the family makes an effort to spend time together, it's totally fine, and day care is super fun! You get to play with other kids for a few hours after school, no biggie![/quote]

I agree completely! When I was a kid, both my parents worked, and I spent a lot of time in some kind of after school daycare. However, we still spent a lot of time together as a family - playing games together, popcorn night in front of the TV, vacations, eating dinner together - and had a strong family. And that's true of my family today - I spend a lot of time with my kids (when they were little I had to learn how to enjoy playing Barbie with them, because that was what they liked to do).

It's not because I feel like I need to - I'm not working from some child rearing theory - it's because I want to. I honestly enjoy the company of my kids, and, if I didn't spend time with them, not only would their life be diminished, but mine would too.

Maybe that's the real problem. Maybe too many people see their kids as more of a burden than as a pleasure (?).

[DanieMarie]

Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

[quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=1385.msg29157#msg29157 date=1295201436]
I agree completely! When I was a kid, both my parents worked, and I spent a lot of time in some kind of after school daycare. However, we still spent a lot of time together as a family - playing games together, popcorn night in front of the TV, vacations, eating dinner together - and had a strong family. And that's true of my family today - I spend a lot of time with my kids (when they were little I had to learn how to enjoy playing Barbie with them, because that was what they liked to do).

It's not because I feel like I need to - I'm not working from some child rearing theory - it's because I want to. I honestly enjoy the company of my kids, and, if I didn't spend time with them, not only would their life be diminished, but mine would too.

Maybe that's the real problem. Maybe too many people see their kids as more of a burden than as a pleasure (?).
[/quote]

yeah I dunno...I'd like to think that if I had kids that I'd want to hang out with them and we'd to lots of stuff together, also not because I think it's important (though I do think that) but I'd want to spend all the time I could with them before they were grown up and moved out....you can't ever replace those experiences. Plus kids give you the opportunity to do lots of stuff you can't justify as much when you're an adult, like going on carnival rides or playing monopoly or colouring in colouring books...I still do all those things by the way, but if you have kids you get to do that stuff all the time....how awesome is that?

I wonder if people who aren't spending time together with their kids will one day realize what they missed out on and regret it?

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=1385.msg28910#msg28910 date=1295101971]
BUT...I think an event like this is a very poor time and atmosphere to make those decisions. This event should not contribute to the discussion and discourse on gun control. Laws should not be made as a reactionary measure to actions of crazy people or shocking (but statistically abnormal) events. Gun control laws would not have stopped *this* guy anyhow. If he couldn't buy a gun, he would have gotten a truck of fertilizer, or whatever else he could thing of...and gun legislation should not be based on these sort of "off the chart" crimes, but rather on a combination of what promotes good order and discipline (to borrow a military term), and makes gun ownership more difficult for people that *shouldn't* own them (and I'm pretty sure most Americans agree that there are some people that shouldn't own a gun) with the minimal amount of restrictions necessary for your average Joe/Jane, who *should* (as a normal law-abiding citizen seeking to live as part of a pluralistic society) understand and be patient with the idea that there may be some inconveniences to deal with in pursuit of his/her gun-toting pastimes (its called a compromise).

[/quote]

The problem is, more restriction doesn't hinder the criminal. If he couldn't get the gun legally he might have tried to get it illegally. Which is a lot easier than people think it is. Actually it's TONS easier.

[thalassa]

Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

[quote author=LadyGarnetRose link=topic=1385.msg29177#msg29177 date=1295208536]
The problem is, more restriction doesn't hinder the criminal. If he couldn't get the gun legally he might have tried to get it illegally. Which is a lot easier than people think it is. Actually it's TONS easier.
[/quote]

I know it doesn't hinder the criminal from *getting* a weapon. But it sure as heck gives the prosecutor another thing to charge 'em with if they do something effed up. And it gives the police something to arrest them for, if they are caught for something else beforehand. And as a law abiding gun owner (though I'm not *into* guns like the hubby), I'm okay with that.

[Monk]

Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

[quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=1385.msg29157#msg29157 date=1295201436]
I agree completely! When I was a kid, both my parents worked, and I spent a lot of time in some kind of after school daycare. However, we still spent a lot of time together as a family - playing games together, popcorn night in front of the TV, vacations, eating dinner together - and had a strong family. And that's true of my family today - I spend a lot of time with my kids (when they were little I had to learn how to enjoy playing Barbie with them, because that was what they liked to do).

It's not because I feel like I need to - I'm not working from some child rearing theory - it's because I want to. I honestly enjoy the company of my kids, and, if I didn't spend time with them, not only would their life be diminished, but mine would too.

Maybe that's the real problem. Maybe too many people see their kids as more of a burden than as a pleasure (?).
[/quote]

I'm not saying daycare in of it's self is a bad thing people have to work to make a living that's just the way it is. My wife and I both work but like you've said we made a point of spending as much time with the kids as possible. I very much agree with what you have said here and your last statement sums it up nicely. Kids should not be thought of as a burden.
I know we both have spent many hours with our kids, played with them, read books when we couldn't(I can still recite Is Your Momma A Llama from memory) keep our eyes open. I strongly believe this made a big difference in how they developed into young adults.

[Bluedragoncoop]

Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

[quote author=Maythe link=topic=1385.msg28784#msg28784 date=1295046166]
In this instance ... potentially unstable robber with weapon enters store, robs it, no-one hurt, cops investigate afterwards. If the shop assistant had pulled a gun however, there's a smaller chance of both the robber getting out with the gear and the shop assistant getting out with his/her life. I know if I was the shop assistant I couldn't give a shit about the gear but... my life...?

Meh it's a debate I've long since realised is an important US cultural thing and us europeans don't get it, and vice versa. Each to his own, variety is the spice of life, yadda yadda.
[/quote]

I have seen some of those police videos where the shop owner gives up the loot and gets shot anyway. I couldn't kill anyone unless they posed a threat to my life or someone I love. I would pull the trigger in a heartbeat if someone I loved was in danger.