Strong Quake Shakes Japan

[Almost_lost]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

Oh dear lord, the pictures on the news are horrific. Some of the towns now look like something straight out of an apocalypse film!

[Medusa]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

Japan is pretty earthquake prone, so they know how to build stuff. If the reactor gets too big a problem, they can just flush it with coolant. Expensive, but not devastating. Which doesn't change the fact that the death toll is climbing and lives are shattered forever

Apparently the reactors are causing problems. They are attempting to keep them up and running by using rolling black outs to divert power to the plants. And they are down to using sea water to cool down the melting cores. Why they don't shut them down I don't know or quite understand. But I wasn't even aware they have 55 nuclear reactor plants in Japan. That seems sorta frightening.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

But I wasn't even aware they have 55 nuclear reactor plants in Japan. That seems sorta frightening.

They need them to fight Godzilla and all sorts of monsters that attack them there.


(too soon?)

[Medusa]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

They need them to fight Godzilla and all sorts of monsters that attack them there.


(too soon?)

*drags dumuzi by the hand for a time out.....

[Caelia]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

Apparently the reactors are causing problems. They are attempting to keep them up and running by using rolling black outs to divert power to the plants. And they are down to using sea water to cool down the melting cores. Why they don't shut them down I don't know or quite understand. But I wasn't even aware they have 55 nuclear reactor plants in Japan. That seems sorta frightening.

Yep, France and Japan lead the world in nuclear power usage. They probably won't shut them down because it has the potential to do more harm than good that way. I've heard rumors the plants are pretty old, so that would do it.

I'm still concerned about a high school friend. Last I heard she hasn't been able to contact her family in Ibaraki and she was waiting on her water ration.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

I'm gonna have an interesting convo with some family in the nuclear power industry, next time I see them. One specializes in "Boiling Water Reactors," which is might be the type of design those plants are.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/japan-fights-nuclear-disasterquake-may-have-killed-10000/

The main cooling systems have failed, and the petroleum-fueled backup pumps are flooded from the Tsunami. They're venting Irradiated steam into the air to try to cool the reactors, while they pump in seawater. Reactors 1 and 3 at Fukushima I are likely to have partially melted down. Reactor 1 had hydrogen bubble explode when they vented the steam - this blew apart the reactor's housing. Reactor 3 is using a newer type of fuel, according to Wikipedia, but the venting is proceeding well. Last I knew, All four reactors at Fukushima II were planned to vent irradiated steam.

People have been evacuated for at least a 12 mile radius, and folks even outside of that have been told to seal themselves indoors (how?), and cut off any AC. In the US, I'm used to seeing a 20 mile radius for evacuation. I've read in another article that released radiation was dispersing pretty well from the area.


The quake has been upgraded to a 9.0 - all of the reactors were rated for a 7.0 on the Richter scale, and have been running for decades. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...i213139S51.DTL

[ChainLightning]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

People have been evacuated for at least a 12 mile radius, and folks even outside of that have been told to seal themselves indoors (how?), and cut off any AC. In the US, I'm used to seeing a 20 mile radius for evacuation. I've read in another article that released radiation was dispersing pretty well from the area.

The radius depends on severity. When I still lived up in Minnesota, I lived about five and a half miles from the Monticello Nuclear Plant. Their evacuation plan had a 3, 6, 12 and 25 mile radius, depending on what level of evacuation they were after (I, II, III, IV - respectively. These did not include the two levels of severity that didn't warrant any evac.). The deal about sealing ourselves up in our home was just to close all windows, shut off the AC or any other indoor/outdoor ventilation systems and stay indoors. At which point, we would be told, in person, what our next step would be, if the evac level was elevated or we were given an 'all clear'.

What it sounded like to me was that Fukushima I started out on a low level severity and then rode the wave higher (no tsunami pun intended!!) as the situation worsened. By the standards we had from the Monti plant, I would guess there is a ton of overcautiousness and overreaction and that we could still likely see even more evacuations, around there. Particularly since they're depending so much on the weather, in their venting procedures.

[Caelia]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

Just got an update from my friend. It looks like around noon their time they're restoring power to Hitachi.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake_nuclear_crisis;_ylt=AlP_VdH9nBJzGuIjzuLLX4ys0NUE

Reactor 3 had a hydrogen-gas explosion at Fukushima I - one of the two discussed earlier as having a probable partial meltdown. Miraculously, it appears that the reactor itself remains contained. A small amount of radioactive material leaked out of Reactor 1 from it's explosion, but containment has been regained.

Reactor 2 at Fukushima I is experiencing cooling problems, with concerns raising about possible partial meltdown. Sounds familiar.

The other three reactors, 4-6, were already shut down for periodic inspection and maintenance at the time of the quake and tsunami.



---------- Post added at 08:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 AM ----------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110314/...pan_earthquake

Supplies are horribly limited; Death Toll estimated at 10,000, ~2,800 confirmed.

[FantasyWitch]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

On our news it says up to 20,000 death toll... x

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

In the less-visible Japan nuclear front:

It was a total of four nuclear power facilities affected.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/03/14/idINIndia-55559020110314

Fukushima II (Daini) has successfully cooled two reactors, presumably by the same means used at Fukushima I (Daiichi), but more detailed info TBA. They still have one more reactor to cool at this plant, alongside a reactor which shut down normally without heating issues.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8375891/Japan-earthquake-and-tsunami-fire-breaks-out-at-nuclear-plant-in-Onagawa.html

https://www.allheadlinenews.com/briefs/articles/90039901?U.N.%20atomic%20watchdog%20mulling%20increased%20nuclear%20safety%20scrutiny%20after%20Japan%26%23146%3Bs%20Fukushima%20disaster

Fire broke out at the Onagawa plant the day of the tsunami, releasing radiation. A day later, radiation was returned to safe levels. Crisis abated there (I think?)

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/nn20110314x3.html

The Tokai plant's #2 reactor has a cooling system down, but a backup system is keeping things from lighting up.

---------- Post added at 11:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 AM ----------

The radius depends on severity. When I still lived up in Minnesota, I lived about five and a half miles from the Monticello Nuclear Plant. Their evacuation plan had a 3, 6, 12 and 25 mile radius, depending on what level of evacuation they were after (I, II, III, IV - respectively. These did not include the two levels of severity that didn't warrant any evac.). The deal about sealing ourselves up in our home was just to close all windows, shut off the AC or any other indoor/outdoor ventilation systems and stay indoors. At which point, we would be told, in person, what our next step would be, if the evac level was elevated or we were given an 'all clear'.

What it sounded like to me was that Fukushima I started out on a low level severity and then rode the wave higher (no tsunami pun intended!!) as the situation worsened. By the standards we had from the Monti plant, I would guess there is a ton of overcautiousness and overreaction and that we could still likely see even more evacuations, around there. Particularly since they're depending so much on the weather, in their venting procedures.

I might've lived near a smaller plant, but I do remember that the evacuation procedure was something like what you're saying. Then again, my memory from when I was 12 might not be perfect Either way, I'm concerned that they might not be evacuating people as far as is needed.

Which plant did you live near, chain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shearon_Harris_Nuclear_Power_Plant

My old stomping grounds recently got a refurbished generator from Three Mile Island.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

Which plant did you live near, chain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shearon_Harris_Nuclear_Power_Plant

My old stomping grounds recently got a refurbished generator from Three Mile Island.

Monticello Nuclear Plant

http://www.nucleartourist.com/us/monti.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monticello_Nuclear_Generating_Plant

I agree, they should have moved the evac radius out, farther. I was at one of the public meetings for the Monti plant, they have the same "depending on wind strength and direction" kind of ambiguity, that we were trying to address. The response we got was that they were already being overcautious. The radiation levels they were talking about leaking were, IIRC, less than 1/10 of 1% of normal environmental 'tolerable' limits, for exposure. Meaning that being in your home/car/basement exposed you to more than 10 times the radiation they were making protocols for.

Personally, I think, having seen my wife through her second bout with breast cancer, radiation is no 'estimate'-based, ambiguous health risk - it is very well understood. Properly handled, it's very efficient and very effective for a great many. You could even say "safe". And, after major incidents like Chernobyl or 3-Mile Island, a lot of protocols have changed drastically. World-wide. But the tendency to want to avoid public panic, instead of just using education and zealous custodianship, is still rampant and still dangerous. Course, that's just my uneducated opinion.

[Storm]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

We've heard from my cousin and she's okay. She was evacuated from her building until it could be checked for structural integrity after all that shaking. She said everyone is out of water and many stores are running out of food.

[thalassa]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

...I know the navy moved one of its carriers b/c it was detecting radiation ~100 mi or so out at sea...

[OpenHands]

Re: Strong Quake Shakes Japan

Hey guys, The Wild Hunt caught my eye the other day with a post about donating to Doctors Without Borders via a FirstGiving page specifically for pagans and pagan-friendly people to raise money as a community. I made a donation as an offering today- it might be something to check out if you've been thinking about donating to the relief efforts.