Fighting.....trashy or not?

[DanieMarie]

When people get in fights (like physical fights, punches and stuff) do you think it's trashy?

I do, and I'm having a heated debate about it on another forum. Apparently a lot of people really think it's acceptable behaviour for a well-mannered, well-educated ADULT person to engage in. Which is news to be because I don't personally know a SINGLE PERSON who doesn't think it's immature and/or trashy.

[Gardenia]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

Trashy? No, that's not the word I would associate with fighting in most circumstances. I could go with immature in some cases... but not all. Really depends on why the people are fighting. What can I say, while I'm usually against fighting, I've seen a few people get decked for some really good reasons.

[OpenHands]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

When people get in fights (like physical fights, punches and stuff) do you think it's trashy?

I can't think of many situations where it would be acceptable either, not counting self-defense where you do whatever you need to do to get out of a bad situation. Like you, I was raised to view fighting as a problem-solving method as low-class and immature. :/

[DanieMarie]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

Yeah I feel that self-defense is a different story as well.

[thalassa]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

My mother always told me that you should never get in a fight that is unimportant enough that you aren't prepared to lose--meaning that if you are going to get in a fight, it should be something you care about enough that you think its worth being willing to get your a$$ kicked over.

I think that generally fighting is immature...though I wouldn't call fighting in general trashy, it can be. I think that, for the most part, getting in a fight (as opposed to defending one's self from attack) says more about one's inability to control themselves than it does for any sort of proving of one's superiority. But (pardoxically) I also think that if a person doesn't find anything worth fighting for, then they really don't find anything worth living for either. While I think fighting should be a last option, I actually think that when people consider it not an option at all that it is just as devaluing as an overabundance of violence would be.

In the end, I think it depends more on what someone is fighting over and how they are fighting that makes fighting, in and of itself, something to be critical of. In my experience, there is something very visceral that being in a fight satisfies, particulary when it is what someone feels is for the "right reasons", whether or not its a win or a lose (though "winning" is preferable, it usually hurts less).

[DanieMarie]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

But even if it's something you care passionately about, unless it's to defend yourself or the safety of someone you love (which I would call defense and not straight up fighting), is that how you solve problems? I mean, I'm passionate about a lot of things but I don't think resolving disagreements about these things with violence is an appropriate response.

The discussion on the other forum started, for example, with a question about a boyfriend fighting over a girlfriend. Like if another guy called her a slut or something. I would be HORRIFIED if my boyfriend got in a fight over that. Like it could be a deal breaker. It's not that I don't think I'm worth fighting for but unless my physical safety is on the line it's just inappropriate and I'd hope I wouldn't date a guy who would think risking assault charges, personal safety and propriety when we could just roll our eyes at the classless moron who would talk to someone like that and walk away.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

This is a good question...

Cases of self defense are one thing, and I think most people are agreed that nobody should end up as a bunching bag, or stand idlely by while somebody else is beaten. I'll leave that aside.

First off, let me say that I've never been in a situation where fighting was the bst option, so I'm not giving the opinion of a particularly violent person.

But - it seems to me - that there are cases where it is morally better to crack somebody in the head than it is to let them go unpunished. In fact, I'll go even further and suggest that the primary reason why we, in the U.S. (at least), have ended up living in a society where we feel powerless to deal with the disgustingly rude behavior of individuals and groups (the Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind) is that we have given up our right to deal harshly with people who's rudeness is, while not illegal, certainly grossly inappropriate.

In order to explain, I'll have to fabricate a scenario.

Let's imagine that I am out in a restaurant with my wife and daughters, enjoying our time together as a family. At the next table are a couple of slime balls who decide to entertain themselves by making lued and rude comments about my wife and/or daughters.

I can choose to ignore it - in which case my family's pleasure in the event is lost, and the "pleasure" of the rudeness of the slime balls goes unchallenged, making it more likely that they will engage in such behavior again.

We could walk out of the restaurant, in which case the result will be the same. Turning the other cheek doesn't work - it only encourages further rudeness.

However, if I approach one of the scum balls, grab him, and plant two or three good ones in his face, the problem goes away. The punks are much less likely to try that kind of thing again in the future, and I can go back and enjoy my dinner - with the approval of my wife and daughters who will see that I actually care about caring for them.

[OpenHands]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

However, if I approach one of the scum balls, grab him, and plant two or three good ones in his face, the problem goes away. The punks are much less likely to try that kind of thing again in the future, and I can go back and enjoy my dinner - with the approval of my wife and daughters who will see that I actually care about caring for them.

Mmm, I think this is a matter of how a person is brought up. If my father or my husband assaulted someone in the middle of a restaurant, I would be mortified. I don't *want* someone demonstrating their concern for me by punching someone else. I wouldn't want my husband teaching our (theoretical) kids that you should be goaded into responding to vulgar words with violent actions, but again- a lot of this depends on how you are raised. I would expect whoever I was with to tell the creeps to knock it off, then complain to management and ask for a different table if they continued.

Also, if you punched somebody in the face in the middle of a restaurant...I'm not sure the management of the establishment would just let that go. You might be looking at a discussion with a police officer or being asked to leave yourself.

[FantasyWitch]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

Self-defence is different but when the fight starts I think it depends WHY the first punch was thrown. I was very nearly in a fist fight in the pub the other night, which has never happened to me before and the bitch was very lucky I let her away with half the crap she came out with.
Sometimes it isn't a matter of having a drunken brawl, just throwing a punch for the sake of it or fighting to be trashy. Sometimes there are things that should NEVER be said and the only thing you can do is punch someone in for it. It isn't about being the bigger person, sometimes it is just your gut instinct.
X

[Ophidia]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

I think it may be one of those double-standard things...

A man calls another man (or another man's wife) a name. Man #2 has to 'man up' and defend his honor or his wife's honor, & decks the guy = not trashy.

Two women on t.v. in a hot-tub fighting over a guy = trashy.

In other words, when men have a fight, it's ok, it's a manly thing, it's something men do. When women fight, it's something men pay money to watch.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

I think it may be one of those double-standard things...

A man calls another man (or another man's wife) a name. Man #2 has to 'man up' and defend his honor or his wife's honor, & decks the guy = not trashy.

Two women on t.v. in a hot-tub fighting over a guy = trashy.

In other words, when men have a fight, it's ok, it's a manly thing, it's something men do. When women fight, it's something men pay money to watch.

Yeahhhh I don't think that's ok and "something men do." If my guy did it, I'd be pretty mad at him. I like chivalry and I need help lifting stuff sometimes, but I don't need my "honor" defended. I'm a strong, independent, classy lady and I can stand up for myself. and for the love of god if my husband got charged or sued and we had to spend money on court fees and stuff, I'd be SO MAD. Like raging mad. It's something I don't think I could get over. An accident is one thing, and I'd stand by him on that, but something that he started? Unacceptable.

[OpenHands]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

In other words, when men have a fight, it's ok, it's a manly thing, it's something men do. When women fight, it's something men pay money to watch.

Nice observation, I hadn't considered that. Maybe it's that old "Boys will be boys" nonsense rearing its head again.

[FantasyWitch]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

Yeahhhh I don't think that's ok and "something men do." If my guy did it, I'd be pretty mad at him. I like chivalry and I need help lifting stuff sometimes, but I don't need my "honor" defended. I'm a strong, independent, classy lady and I can stand up for myself. and for the love of god if my husband got charged or sued and we had to spend money on court fees and stuff, I'd be SO MAD. Like raging mad. It's something I don't think I could get over. An accident is one thing, and I'd stand by him on that, but something that he started? Unacceptable.

I disagree. Maybe it is a personal thing but one of my biggest flaws as a person is that I can stand up for anyone apart from myself. I'd be very angry and hurt if Dale didn't stand up for me when he knew someone has hurt/upset me. I'm not saying to punch their lights out, but for him to stand back and say nothing? THAT would make me upset., X

[MaskedOne]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

Ehh, there are a number of instances where I can easily understand and sympathize with a burning desire to pound given individuals into the dirt. That said, I don't generally consider "fist fights" practical methods of accomplishing my goals. I wouldn't call them trashy, just not productive. If violence will effectively accomplish a worthwhile goal that cannot effectively be attained by other means than it's worth considering but I generally don't run into conditions where it accomplishes anything I want.

Fist fight in this instance refers to any violence where my goal is not to seriously injure and/or kill you.

[Bjorn]

Re: Fighting.....trashy or not?

All right, let me add my two cents since I'm sure my opinion differs and might ruffle a few feathers.

I have always been a tomboy. I have always been strong as an ox and athletic by nature (what I mean is I am flexible, strong, and have naturally good endurance). It's one of the cool things I got from my dad. I have also always been on the outskirts of what is cool or socially normal. No one taught me to get into fights but the only thing my parents really said was "don't ever throw the first punch," but that was mostly because they knew I'd get into trouble and boy howdy I did NOT need any help doing that.

I was never a bully. But from a young age I realized that I could dish out my own justice when the situation was at its most dire (because fighting hurts, even if you win, so finding fights is stupid), and that turned into a source of swagger. I could do whatever I wanted because if you really, REALLY wanted to go toe-to-toe, I was going to clean your clock. And I knew I could. Only fight I ever lost was against a man twice my size and that's a long, stupid story (but no, he wasn't my boyfriend/lover/friends with benefits), so that didn't help my cockiness either.

So fights over things like boys, girls, gossip, trash talking, drugs, or almost any reason that girls get into fights? Totally trashy. I finally learned that fights to prove something prove nothing. You're not a man or a woman if you think you have something to prove to everyone.

However, fights over insults, bullying, crime, or to someone who deserves their comeuppance - totally acceptable and can be fun to watch.

Then again, I had three older cousins who used to wrestle with me and drag me around the yard in a headlock and taught me to always take my glasses off before I headbutt someone. So perhaps I'm a bit more rough and tumble than most and don't think fighting is a poor way to solve problems. It just shouldn't be the first solution.