The Fear of Death

[Roknrol]

Re: The Fear of Death

I used to not be afraid of death, back in the days when I believed (perhaps foolishly) that I would continue to exist after...well...THIS. To be perfectly honest, even believing that there's nothing after this life, I'm not terribly scared. After all, if I'm right, there won't be a consciousness left to complain about how much death sucks afterwards

[Dez]

Re: The Fear of Death

It's interesting that you say that, shadow.

I had a very deep and abiding fear of death and horror as a child...the unknown quality as much as anything. Even something as silly as Disney's Haunted Mansion I would point-blank refuse to go on. Then, when I was 14 a cat who had often been my sole companion for the better part of the past seven years passed away. Given the circumstances, I felt responsible.

I started to read everything I could get my hands on about disease and illness...to this day, I have a set of flash cards that I made, listing tropical diseases. My family was very anti- the "Medical Industrial Complex", or else I probably would have wanted to become a doctor.

As is, death is still something that I find fascinating. There is still an edge of fear to it, but there is beauty there, also. The spent rose is as lovely as the rose in full-bloom, and there is order and wonder in the muscles and bones when I prepare a whole chicken for a meal.

I think that some of our fear of death is because we have taken such strict measures to remove it from our sight. A child can go years without a clear idea that what they are eating was once an animal. Families no longer participate in the washing and dressing of the deceased, taking that time to let it sink in. And, like Chain said, we are encouraged to fight the signs of aging with surgery and treatments. Looking artificially youthful has become a status issue, as well.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The Fear of Death

I have lost a number of people very close to me over the years, and without going into too much detail, I think it's something you just learn to cope with. It doesn't mean I like it, I certainly don't welcome it, but there are also times when death is a blessed relief (and also times when it leaves you feeling totally cheated.)

Really death is a part of life... think about it, lots of people are never born, but everyone who is born eventually dies. So it's the great rite of passage that we simply cannot avoid. And if we can't avoid it, then there's no point wasting time and energy dreading it. We just have to get on with it as best we can.

[Roknrol]

Re: The Fear of Death

So it's the great rite of passage that we simply cannot avoid.

Hrmph...doesn't mean I can't try

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The Fear of Death

That reminds me of Woody Allen's comment (I think it was him) that he didn't want to achieve immortality through his work, he wanted to achieve it through not dying!

[thalassa]

Re: The Fear of Death

I think people fear death because its unknown---regardless of what one believes about it, its fundamentally impossible to know what (if anything) comes next and what the actual act of dying feels like. I mean...dying is the end of everything you know. For some people, that might be a relief...but for most people, I suspect its really (whether they acknowledge it directly or not) quite scary. I don't think *death* (the idea that organisms have an ending) to be feared, and I don't fear what happens after I'm already dead...but when I directly contemplate the actual act of ME (or mine) dying, I fully admit it scares the shit out of me.

[Taiga Pagan]

Re: The Fear of Death

Let me give you a reminder about quantum physics: absolute nothingness does not exist.

[ChainLightning]

Re: The Fear of Death

Let me give you a reminder about quantum physics: absolute nothingness does not exist.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? You trying to prove that death doesn't exist, due to calculations in quantum physics? That's a nonsense argument, you know.

[MaskedOne]

Re: The Fear of Death

Let me give you a reminder about quantum physics: absolute nothingness does not exist.

If you're going to use Quantum Physics to make an argument against oblivion then

1) It potentially belongs in another thread.

2) Needs more than a flat assertion to be useful. There are quantum physics theories that potentially have entertaining implications, yes but applying them in this case is a bit more than saying "absolute nothing" is a myth.

Regarding the OP, the actual concept of death doesn't really terrify me. My issue is more with the host of theories for what happens after. At least 2 of them scare the s*** out of me and there's a third that I don't find quite as terrifying but I also don't find it even remotely palatable.

[Roknrol]

Re: The Fear of Death

Let me give you a reminder about quantum physics: absolute nothingness does not exist.

While you are technically correct, just because the energy doesn't "go away", doesn't mean that it exists in a viable state for thought or consciousness. As a matter of fact, the science suggests exactly the opposite.

Second: If this is the direction that the conversation is going to go, I'd suggest another thread because I can rant for hours about people that know just enough about Quantum Mechanics to make shit up (but not to back it up).

[Dez]

Re: The Fear of Death

Regarding the OP, the actual concept of death doesn't really terrify me. My issue is more with the host of theories for what happens after. At least 2 of them scare the s*** out of me and there's a third that I don't find quite as terrifying but I also don't find it even remotely palatable.

I hadn't really thought about it that way...but that raised a very interesting point for me: Part of the reason why I think I'm less scared now about death, is because I don't believe that my only possible option(ETA--that's not even right--this would be a reward for good behavior!) is giving birth to a God's spirit babies for eternity, as most likely one of several (as many as 30, if Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are actually indicators) of several women doing so, and who aren't allowed to contact said offspring after their trip to an earth-like planet. Add, rinse, repeat....forever.

Yeah...nothing after death is actually less scary for me.

[MaskedOne]

Re: The Fear of Death

I'm not certain I have adequate words for that premise. Ehmm, yeah...

Where's the brain bleach? I need to forget something!

[Taiga Pagan]

Re: The Fear of Death

To those who said my argument is invalid...

No, I did not meant that death doesn't exist... I meant that the information about the previous existance of a person cannot ever be erased. It still recorded somewhere and not necessairely in the Einstein 4 dimensional view, but in the 11 dimensional view. which includes 3 spatial dimensions, 3 temporal dimensions, 3 hyper spatial dimensions and 1 brane dimension.

If we had the tools, we could percieve the whole existence of a person, that had, currently is or could exist... all it's possibilities of how that person could had or would have lived it's life, thus in logic made a form of IMMORTALITY. DEATH is just in fact revelant in a chain of events, a continuum, that travels inside that 11 dimensional universe.

So the question of FEAR OF DEATH is subjective to our perception of time, it's never truely an end in itself. I will never be convinced to be afraid of it, if something can be imagined or experienced (like I remind you I did experience the afterlife), then the possibility can exist.

[ChainLightning]

Wow.

To those who said my argument is invalid...

No, I did not meant that death doesn't exist... I meant that the information about the previous existance of a person cannot ever be erased.

Absolute nothingness and previous existences are not the same thing, for one thing. And erasing all memory of a previous existence, ALSO, is not an indication of absolute nothingness. Furthermore, the assumption that there does exist such an eventuality as cyclic existences, disdain for simple bio-mechanics, biology and physiology and trying to explain all that with a contemptuous remark, belittling non-believers, is still an invalid argument. It's called trolling. That is, if it isn't just simply bigotry or prejudice, making one so delusional that no other beliefs systems are recognized.

It still recorded somewhere and not necessairely in the Einstein 4 dimensional view, but in the 11 dimensional view. which includes 3 spatial dimensions, 3 temporal dimensions, 3 hyper spatial dimensions and 1 brane dimension.

You've opened a can of worms, here, that is decidedly in the wrong place. There's at least half a dozen people on these boards that, if they aren't scientists, they are still thoroughly intrigued by Quantum Mechanics. And, knowing that, you would have at least done some homework before trying to convince anyone that past life regression hides in the membranes of 11 dimensions. Which, by the way, is what a brane is. A membrane.

If we had the tools, we could percieve the whole existence of a person, that had, currently is or could exist... all it's possibilities of how that person could had or would have lived it's life, thus in logic made a form of IMMORTALITY.

We DO have the tools to perceive. That's not physics. Nor is it quantum physics. It's just perception. The avenues of thought, for the different perceptions are called philosophies. Trying to use logic to link, however insubstantially, reality and truth to philosophy and opinion is not a valid argument. It's actually non sequitor.

DEATH is just in fact revelant in a chain of events, a continuum, that travels inside that 11 dimensional universe.

Wrong. Death is part of a regular life cycle. This 11 dimensional universe you speak of is an unproven, highly contested view that isn't even mathematically sound, as yet. You can't just say that something IS, that it exists, just because you say it does. Evidence is in short supply, there. Like: absent. So, trivializing the end of an individual's life, in favor of a much broader multi-faceted, repeating cycle of lives IS a valid argument. But that is not what you said, by any stretch of the imagination.

Do I really need to repost, to quote, just exactly what you argued, what you stated, in just 5 words? Didn't think so. It was only a half dozen posts ago.

So the question of FEAR OF DEATH is subjective to our perception of time, it's never truely an end in itself.

When you were born... all the way until the day you die IS your time. Your perception of it, in any case. Birth=beginning. Death=end. Where is the subjective bit? Your perception of time ends when your perception of life ends, prior to the perception of your funeral. Death. It means dead. It means no more computer time. No more coffee and doughnuts at 8. No more pain and suffering through life, dealing with self-righteous halfwits. The brain stops functioning, the heart stops beating... game over. That's not subjective. That's a fact.

I will never be convinced to be afraid of it, if something can be imagined or experienced (like I remind you I did experience the afterlife), then the possibility can exist.

Nobody is asking, convincing or hoping to cause you to fear death. Dreaming up alternatives doesn't mean they exist or not. And doesn't warrant a debate. The question was why IS there a fear of death, at least as a society? You didn't answer the question. You merely attacked a notion where someone believed differently than you.

I hate to break this to you: You are the ONLY ONE with YOUR beliefs. Nobody, I mean NO OTHER PERSON, has YOUR beliefs. You better get used to that idea. Everyone believes differently.

ETA: /off-topic

[Roknrol]

Re: The Fear of Death

To those who said my argument is invalid...

What argument are we talking about again? I haven't seen an actual argument yet...

No, I did not meant that death doesn't exist...

Yeah...it would probably make more than one sentence to make a point.

I meant that the information about the previous existance of a person cannot ever be erased. It still recorded somewhere and not necessairely in the Einstein 4 dimensional view, but in the 11 dimensional view.

OH...you mean the one that's so much theory it's almost better described as, what I like to call, a "guess"? The one that fits the facts, but is not necessarily the cleanest or easiest way of doing so? Yeah...that's the one.

So you're totally ok with your existence meaning nothing here because it means something, somewhere, to someone? That's a valid view, I suppose...I don't get the same warm fuzzies as you do. Considering that by the time you get to the 6th dimension you've encompassed every idea that could have ever existed, you're not really bringing anything useful to the table...

which includes 3 spatial dimensions, 3 temporal dimensions, 3 hyper spatial dimensions and 1 brane dimension.

It *MAY* include these things. It may not. Do you know how much proof we have for the 4th (and subsequent) dimensions? Let me put it to you this way: Science is still trying to decide what the 4th dimension actually IS and encompasses. If they haven't gotten that figured out, why in the fuck would you trust them to tell you about the additional 7?

If we had the tools, we could percieve the whole existence of a person, that had, currently is or could exist...

Uh...I suppose, if we had time-travel and interdimensional travel...I suppose that would be possible.

Here's the rub: Those things DON'T exist. And until they do, we won't have any proof for what you're talking about above anyway. We can "if" and "coulda" all damn day long, but I fail to see how any of this addresses the original topic.

all it's possibilities of how that person could had or would have lived it's life, thus in logic made a form of IMMORTALITY.

<snort> You're putting an awful lot of faith in some quantum guesswork...

DEATH is just in fact revelant in a chain of events, a continuum, that travels inside that 11 dimensional universe.

Perhaps, but you know what: Most people are only going to care about how death applies in their piddling little 3 dimensional universe. I know that, for whatever benefits may apply to "could have been" Rok, the only ones that really matter are the ones that apply to me, here, in this life, in this set of dimensions.

So the question of FEAR OF DEATH is subjective to our perception of time, it's never truely an end in itself.

Got anything to back it up?

I will never be convinced to be afraid of it, if something can be imagined or experienced (like I remind you I did experience the afterlife), then the possibility can exist.

Just because a possibility CAN exist doesn't mean that it DOES.