star Children

[Dumuzi]

Re: star Children

There's an Egyptian saying that goes something like, "A monkey, in his mother's eye, is a deer".

[thalassa]

Re: star Children

yes yes. Everyone is special. Everyone gets a participation sticker. I've never met so many special people in one spot. I must be the luckiest average joe around!

*continues popping air out of your special sails.

I don't think anyone said that intellectually "gifted" makes you special (hell, in the end, it doesn't even make you smart)...it just makes you average among a different group of people for a particular skill...which is what I think the moral of those of us that *did* grow up with that expectation/assumption have said.

...and based on what people were actually saying, concerning the actual topic...that's sort of the point.

Treating a kid like they *are* "special" and therefore entitled to some sort of treatment, or assuming that because they have a particular skill set that they should be put on a pedestal....its BS. There is no magical alien star-seeded path for them to follow and save the world from itself, ushering in a new era of harmony. Which ultimately is what the star child propaganda is about...

[Raphaeline]

Re: star Children

I'm afraid I have to agree with pretty much everyone and say I don't think there's anything to the indigo child thing. I think that parents always see their children as something very special and want to find ways to prove it to the rest of the world. I think my baby is the greatest thing on the planet, but that's because I'm his mama

I was actually thinking the other day that I don't like calling children "gifted". I was in a gifted program when I was a kid, but I never knew what it was supposed to mean. I did some of the programs at the college, and it was fun at the time, but now I just consider it a way for the university to get kids interested in higher education and get accustomed to their institution. Once, when I was going through some mental problems in school, the counselor told me that I had the third highest IQ in my class... but even while I was sitting there, I thought, "Well, it obviously hasn't helped much so far. What is that supposed to do for me?" I had A's in my English and history classes, and B's in everything else besides my math classes, which were always Ds or sometimes Fs. None of it meant anything because I hated the school program. I'm a contrarian and a rebel, and being called "gifted" didn't mean I was a genius or better in school or particularly talented or in any way a better person, but that's what the word GIFTED implies.

I think it's insulting to kids who aren't called gifted, and it's meaningless to those who are.

[DanieMarie]

Re: star Children

I don't think anyone said that intellectually "gifted" makes you special (hell, in the end, it doesn't even make you smart)...it just makes you average among a different group of people for a particular skill...which is what I think the moral of those of us that *did* grow up with that expectation/assumption have said.

...and based on what people were actually saying, concerning the actual topic...that's sort of the point.

Treating a kid like they *are* "special" and therefore entitled to some sort of treatment, or assuming that because they have a particular skill set that they should be put on a pedestal....its BS. There is no magical alien star-seeded path for them to follow and save the world from itself, ushering in a new era of harmony. Which ultimately is what the star child propaganda is about...

Yep that's exactly the point.

[Ophidia]

Re: star Children

I was actually thinking the other day that I don't like calling children "gifted". I was in a gifted program when I was a kid, but I never knew what it was supposed to mean.

For me, 'gifted' meant that I rode the short bus from the regular school, to the GATE program school.

For years, I couldn't figure out why people laughed at me whenever I'd get defensive about riding 'the short bus' to school. I mean, wth, people, there were only 7 of us in the class - like they'd waste a banana boat (the regular bus) on us?!

Being in GATE classes in elementary school was a blast, though - we got to go on more field trips, we all sat on the floor in a circle around the teacher with the desks pushed against the walls, we had 'unstructured research time' which basically meant playing with scientific toys or laying on bean bags & reading, we did a yearlong project one time where we created a place called 'Eco-Island' that had to have a viable community, a government, and an economy that were all green and sustainable (and this was in the early 80s, mind you)... being in the GATE or AP (Advanced Placement) classes in jr. high & high school meant more, and harder, work - so I learned to play dumb after the first couple of semesters and I realized the 'real world' apparently meant having an 8am to 3pm job involving a ton of paperwork.

[Medusa]

Re: star Children

I don't think anyone said that intellectually "gifted" makes you special (hell, in the end, it doesn't even make you smart)...it just makes you average among a different group of people for a particular skill...which is what I think the moral of those of us that *did* grow up with that expectation/assumption have said.

...and based on what people were actually saying, concerning the actual topic...that's sort of the point.

Treating a kid like they *are* "special" and therefore entitled to some sort of treatment, or assuming that because they have a particular skill set that they should be put on a pedestal....its BS. There is no magical alien star-seeded path for them to follow and save the world from itself, ushering in a new era of harmony. Which ultimately is what the star child propaganda is about...

Oh don't get me wrong. I don't think anyone is special. It was just starting to smell like a thread full of 'individual special snowflakes' and I had to put a stop to that before a nerd got hurt or something.

[DanieMarie]

Re: star Children

I don't think there's anything wrong with people sharing their negative experiences with being raised as "individual special snowflakes" in a thread about children who are supposedly spiritually "individual special snowflakes."

[Thjoth]

Re: star Children

There's an Egyptian saying that goes something like, "A monkey, in his mother's eye, is a deer".

So what you're telling me is that Egyptian mothers need glasses with very powerful prescriptions?

Oh don't get me wrong. I don't think anyone is special. It was just starting to smell like a thread full of 'individual special snowflakes' and I had to put a stop to that before a nerd got hurt or something.

Hey, I'll have you know that we nerds are more robust than you think! Getting kicked around every day for 12 years of your life really builds up the constitution!

[Medusa]

Re: star Children

I don't think there's anything wrong with people sharing their negative experiences with being raised as "individual special snowflakes" in a thread about children who are supposedly spiritually "individual special snowflakes."

I don't think anything is wrong with it either. I think the fact that so many posters have had problems with the label of 'gifted' as a child really cements the arguments being made here about how no one really is special. Apparently everyone gets to be 'gifted'. The problems people have had here with that label should be a warning sign to those who want to label their child 'gifted' without it not maybe being absolutely true. It's also just a funny thread to us 'non gifted'. Trust me.

[Caelia]

Re: star Children

I guess since we've wandered to the dangers of labeling everyone as gifted I can give my testimony about the labeling in reverse.

Until kindergarten I was misdiagnosed with every developmental disorder the 80's offered. They actually told my parents to not bother teaching me anything because it was futile, and with "enough rigorous training I may be able to hold a job at McDonald's". My father didn't buy it; my mom did( she didn't even try to get to know me until my late adolescence). It wasn't until an LD teacher discovered I had taught myself to read and write they decided to retest me. Despite a language disorder they found I, if anything, needed to be in a gifted program according to the district psychologist. Instead of staying in an LD room for an entire day (I never experienced the joy of half days) half of my day was spent in LD and the other in a kindergarten class. Had I stayed at that school I probably would have been in a gifted program and still ended up with the same fate I have now. But I didn't.

My mom transferred me to another school in the same district (how she let them convince her I will never know). They tried to put me back in the LD program despite what tests showed. After a tussle, involving activist groups, the district psychologist, and the principal I wasn't put back into LD. However, the "failure" label still followed me. Teachers, not understanding my language disorder meant I couldn't read as fast or had crummy handwriting, used that as proof for their claims. It sort of died down over time, but those tests followed me as did the label. Moving to an entire town altogether didn't even remove the label of "failure". Teachers thought I was incapable despite proof of otherwise, even in the arts where I was praised for my display of technique. No matter what, the label didn't go away.

In general, I think people should be aware of the effects of labeling be they "star children" or "failures". Like others have testified all it does it create egos and expectations someone may not meet.

[Ophidia]

Re: star Children

Until kindergarten I was misdiagnosed with every developmental disorder the 80's offered. They actually told my parents to not bother teaching me anything because it was futile, and with "enough rigorous training I may be able to hold a job at McDonald's".

My oldest sister has dyslexia and a few other developmental issues, and since she was in school in the enlightened 60s & 70s, they straight up called her 'retarded'. She considers herself lucky that she was out of school before Ritalin became popular

[Caelia]

Re: star Children

My oldest sister has dyslexia and a few other developmental issues, and since she was in school in the enlightened 60s & 70s, they straight up called her 'retarded'. She considers herself lucky that she was out of school before Ritalin became popular

Oi! I can only imagine what it was like a decade before my diagnosis. I'd like to say those programs have come a long way, but working as a teacher's aid in that program I can say it hasn't progressed by much The most that's happened is they're slightly more diligent about cracking down on the abuse (I was luckier than others, but I still got the dark room treatment and isolation for longer than what was acceptable for even "normal" children).

Yeah, I barely missed the window for "just medicating them 'til they drool on themselves". I lived in the richest county in Kansas at the time so yuppees were everywhere and were totally on that bandwagon. From what I hear most of their over-medicated kids got pretty screwed up that way. One former classmate managed to burn down his house due to some freak bong accident!

[DanieMarie]

Re: star Children

I read that Einstein's teachers had told his parents that he would only ever be suited to hard manual labour because he was "too slow" for further schooling.

I think the key is to understand and encourage talents, without pushing them too hard or placing kids on some sort of pedestal because of them.

[Gobae]

Re: star Children

This, exactly. I'll also take it a step more, that particular site also reads like it's for parents that want to think they're special, too. Chosen to help these special children because they're special and gifted, too. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it, the whole idea doesn't really make sense to me.
And I mean, reading the section for the indigo children? Most of the kids I know could pass that test. Same with the rainbow children bit...

Bingo! It's just a way for parents to stroke their egos.

Whenever you feel like you (or your child) is 'special' or 'unique', just remember "You're unique JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE".

Personally, I feel that childhood is overrated. Too much time is spent on making it 'fun', 'not stifling creativity', and 'building self-esteem'. Less than 25% of your life will be spent as a child, so the lessons for the other 75% are what's needed; communication, respect, compassion and community. Quite frankly, I'm glad I learned those lessons early on. Now I can have fun, be creative, and thereby have self-esteem as an ADULT where my options are wide open.

[Ophidia]

Re: star Children

Childhood is mostly like what we do when we train puppies. It's for socialization, making humans tolerable to other humans so we don't kill each other on our first emergences out into public.

That's part of why I just never had kids - I don't want to be responsible for an unsocialized bad dog any more than I want to be responsible for an unsocialized bad kid. Dogs are easier to train and puppyhood only lasts about a year. For many kids, it seems to be a lifelong struggle to keep 'em from pissing on other people's property, chewing up the furniture, humping anything that moves and fighting anything they can't piss on or hump.