Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

[Louisvillian]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Sounds pretty oxymoronic but, i've heard of people practicing both. Any input anyone?

It depends on what you describe "witchcraft" is. If we use the traditional definition and concept, then they're very incompatible.
But if we define it, as many in the Pagan community do, as simply another term for "folk magic", then that's an entirely different story. Folk magic has a long history of being fused with Christianity; how else do you think it lasted long enough, as a cultural practice, to be re-appropriated by the Neopagan movement?
Though, as MaskedOne said earlier in the thread, it would require considerable modification to Catholic beliefs.

[Daughter of Toothless]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

When I first came across a facebook page that says Christian Witchcraft, I was actually pretty excited. I was slowly getting into studying Paganism and I thought it was actually pretty cool. I know of a Christian Witch on tumblr; very nice person to talk to. If witchcraft works for some Christians, then let them be. I don't know why people have a problem with Christian Witches. It's just their way of expressing their faith. I say live and let live and judge no one, no matter what they use to worship their deity.

[Erika]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I think people just figure that they're being oxymoronic because of the Old Testament passage saying 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live,' but that doesn't take into account that the Ten Commandments are the hard-and-fast rules that you aren't supposed to break, the belief that you will be forgiven for your sins, or the debate about whether or not 'witch' was in fact a mistranslation of 'poisoner.' I tend to think that your path's yours, and if you're okay, I really don't have any say in the matter, because it's not my business.

[Immersion]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I don't have a problem with mixing or following both. I do it myself. I grew up Catholic but lost interest due to a lack of spiritual satisfaction. A friend introduced me to Wicca (and subsequently witchcraft) and really liked many things about it and the path grew on me over time. I have not abandoned Catholicism nor rejected it completely. There are many things about the path which I still appreciate. I still hold onto it because of family tradition (mostly). I've read a considerable amount on the idea of mixing or following both paths and find the "negative" responses intriguing.

The Bible, being a collection of ancient books, was written in with much literary symbolism from that time. When reading or studying the Bible one must take this into account and correctly interpret the works by using the same literary symbolism. Too many people take the Bible literally and this is where problems arise. The Old Testament may have forbidden witchcraft but it is entirely possible (and I've read this from multiple sources I just wish I could remember them for this post) that what those writers had in mind then is different than witchcraft today.

Concerning any incompatibilities with Catholicism...well this can be a little vague. There is a distinct difference between the the Catholic Church and the Catholic faith. The strict hierarchy, rigidness, and politico-organization is the Church while the faith is accepting/embracing Jesus as God and living a spiritual life as he taught. The faith concerns itself with the New Testament. *A lot* of people don't see a difference between the two and I don't know why that is.

Given how much of the Church and faith are built upon previously existing pagan religions, I don't see why integrating witchcraft or Wicca with Catholicism would be problematic.

Anyway, that's my two cents!

[Louisvillian]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

or the debate about whether or not 'witch' was in fact a mistranslation of 'poisoner.'

It's not really a mistranslation. A lot of languages have a term that means equivalently 'poisoner' when taken literally, but has strong connotations of a person using harmful magic for personal gain or evil motives. Frank fact is, Modern Witchcraft's notion of being a 'witch' is almost a misnomer; it changed the definition to mean a practitioner of folk magic in general, rather than a person who works in harmful magic; it doesn't fit at all with historical usage of the term, or its equivalents in other languages.
But I've said that before, time and time again.

[Ula]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

My good friend is Catholic, Native American and practices what I would call witchcraft. She does herbal remedies for illness, natural soaps and oils, spells. She just calls on Christ and Mary to bless her work and is an animist.

[MyValenwind]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

If I remember correctly from a discussion I had with a friend that has a theology minor, that especially pre-Protestant reformation, what wasn't necessarily called Witchcraft (but can definitely identify as such) was practiced by a few Saints in forms of divination. In many cases Priests needed to seek outside sources for different occurrences, personal situations, etc., and as long as it was done for God, it was a-OK.
Catholicism and Witchcraft really aren't too much different except for doctrine and deity. I've had a discussion with one priest who totally agreed that my path and his path were very much alike, and I've been able to go to quite a few times to mass and personally analyzed the similarities and differences between mass and neopagan ritual (like hello, cakes and ale).
And the debate about the liturgical year being based off the lunar calendar, well, yeah.
I have never felt more at home in any other church than a Catholic church- well at least a Catholic church that isn't full of Fundies. Thats what I think the problem is with today's Catholicism, is that protestant fundies are overrunning the church. Else, they wouldn't be so in the news all the time and spewing controversial statements (lets not bring up the abuse scandals for once), tending to the poor and minding their own business- like Pope Francis.

[Hafthor]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

^This for sure

Catholicism is about as close to a pagan tradition that Christians can get, without becoming fully pagan. Yes they worship Jesus, but they also have a very close relationship with Mary and all the Saints. In fact the Church pushed heavy for the Saints for the reason that pagans have many Gods that do work for them...just like Catholics might pray to St. Joesph to find a lost item.

We all know that Catholicism took over the pagan ways and made them Catholic so that people could better convert.

[DON]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I don't really see a big difference between the rituals practised by the catholic church and pagan rituals. Catholics claim that their intent is different but the scriptures are clear that your intent has nothing to do with worship.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I don't really see a big difference between the rituals practised by the catholic church and pagan rituals. Catholics claim that their intent is different but the scriptures are clear that your intent has nothing to do with worship.

I find that appears to be the common belief among Born Again Christians that Catholics are actually pagan, not Christian. Is that what you are saying? Just curious, as my brother-in-law is a born again Christian but its a touchy subject at family gatherings, as you can imagine.

[Medusa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Seriously Catholicism is like the 101 to rituals and magic. That's honestly why it's so popular to be honest. Think about it. Christianity is boooooooooring. Being a Catholic? The candles. The incense. The red velvet robes. It's sexy, man.

[thalassa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I don't really see a big difference between the rituals practised by the catholic church and pagan rituals. Catholics claim that their intent is different but the scriptures are clear that your intent has nothing to do with worship.

I don't see much of a difference between any Christian ritual and a Pagan one. From the Pentecostals to the Episcopalians to the Baptists to the Catholics--they are all about a half step from the line of doing *something* that we do. The more charismatic, Evangelical, or fundamentalist it is, the more Pagan it looks. Speaking in tongues? Full body immersion baptism? Snake handling? Casting out demons? Hands-on healing? Praying for direct intervention from deity? Thinking you are being personally visited by deity? Invoking the Holy Spirit? Recognizing God beyond gender?

Oh yeah, Christians are just a bunch of Pagans doing religion with Jesus.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I don't see much of a difference between any Christian ritual and a Pagan one. From the Pentecostals to the Episcopalians to the Baptists to the Catholics--they are all about a half step from the line of doing *something* that we do. The more charismatic, Evangelical, or fundamentalist it is, the more Pagan it looks. Speaking in tongues? Full body immersion baptism? Snake handling? Casting out demons? Hands-on healing? Praying for direct intervention from deity? Thinking you are being personally visited by deity? Invoking the Holy Spirit? Recognizing God beyond gender?

Oh yeah, Christians are just a bunch of Pagans doing religion with Jesus.

Evidently I've rep'ed you too recently, Thal... but this is GOLD.

I don't really see a big difference between the rituals practised by the catholic church and pagan rituals. Catholics claim that their intent is different but the scriptures are clear that your intent has nothing to do with worship.

I was raised Catholic and I am constantly amazed by how the Protestant faiths in the US view Catholicism. Sometimes I feel like I live in a twilight zone where 'Catholic' here means something completely different to in the US.

Pagans don't have a patent out on ritual. Period.

Add to that the fact that Gardner, when he invented Wicca, borrowed most of his ceremonial and ritual content from groups such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (most of whom where Christian mystics) and it's not difficult to see why pagan ritual seems so similar to Catholic ritual. If you go back further, most of the grimoires and magickal tomes going back to medieval times were written by Catholic clergy. At that point in time, 'pagan' meant something different, and most of the paths that we consider to have been handed down to us now were at that time focusing on folk practices and cottage craft, not ceremony and ritual.

Lots of faiths do ritual. LOTS. That doesn't make them all pagan or pagan-like. It just makes ritual a VERY common thing.

[DON]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I find that appears to be the common belief among Born Again Christians that Catholics are actually pagan, not Christian. Is that what you are saying? Just curious, as my brother-in-law is a born again Christian but its a touchy subject at family gatherings, as you can imagine.

It's a tricky one for sure. Salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ is a free gift, and so anyone who accepts that gift has eternal life in heaven. This means any Catholic who accepts the gift by this definition is Christian, and this can only be reversed one of two ways - explicitly renouncing Jesus, or taking the mark of the beast. Only one of those is non reversible BTW.

Then there are very specific verses that imply that salvation can be lost. The warning to the Laodicean Church comes to mind, which was a warning that their luke warmness would result in rejection.

This is a topic that the church itself can't agree on. All I can say is that your family gatherings will continue to be interesting.

Now I'd like to point out that rituals exist everywhere. Abraham was instructed by God to perform rituals. The prophetic feast days are rituals. Invoking the name of Jesus Christ to heal or deliver is a ritual of sorts. I guess this is because there are common laws when dealing with the spiritual realm. It's astounding how often YWH centred spiritual practices are direct mirror images of those that are not. Even the simple things like the determination of when a day starts and ends.

It is easy to notice the similarities and think they are the same, just like a mirror image can be mistaken for the original.

[Medusa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

But salvation isn't a gift. It's a free sample of cocaine. The number one reason I hate the concept of Christianity at its core is this concept. I can agree that most of its morals and rules are passable. But when I look deep down at the core belief of Salvation it pisses me off to no end.