Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

[thalassa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

It is easy to notice the similarities and think they are the same, just like a mirror image can be mistaken for the original.

Ritual is ritual. Deity is deity. People are people. The details are different--the clothing, the names, the words. The feelings and faith are the same.

And those are the only things that matter.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Ritual is ritual. Deity is deity. People are people. The details are different--the clothing, the names, the words. The feelings and faith are the same.

And those are the only things that matter.

Christians as a general rule (and in my experience so YMMV) seem to take the idea of collective mind and faith as a giant insult. The idea that your god might be on the same level as their is inherently offensive...considering the whole "thou shalt have no other gods before me" business.

It is honestly the one real beef I still hold for the faith, is this.

Having practiced a wide variety of faiths over the years, and having interacted with many, those true in faith seem to have no issues. I remember reading a story Joseph Campbell told about an interfaith gathering in the 1960s where some Christian Monks and Buddhist monks got together and had no trouble understanding each other...yet those without that total immersion in faith which organized Christianity encourages, makes it a real struggle for a lot of adherents to really get that full body faith to the point where someone else's god no longer threatens them.

It is one perk of many forms of paganism. I'm a priestess, a nun, a monk, and a deity myself. I don't need anyone else to talk to god for me. God is part of me. There's no separation, hence its always a full on, full body experience.

The God of Christianity doesn't threaten me and the faith of his followers doesn't threaten my faith at all. I feel some compassion for those who have to struggle to cling to their beliefs by denigrating those of others, like a awkward school yard bully.

[Malflick]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

*starts writing post*

*that can lead nowhere good*

*just walks away*

*but seriously folks...?*

*leaves thread*

[Rowanwood]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

*starts writing post*

*that can lead nowhere good*

*just walks away*

*but seriously folks...?*

*leaves thread*

I would LOVE to hear how I'm wrong. No, really. I mean this absolutely without sarcasm. I want us all to understand each other, but every time I've brought up religious syncretism with Christians, I've been shot down hard. Do you think it can happen? Can a Christian truly accept the parallels with paganism and other faiths and accept they are as valid a path...while still remaining true to their own tenets?

[Malflick]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I would LOVE to hear how I'm wrong. No, really. I mean this absolutely without sarcasm. I want us all to understand each other, but every time I've brought up religious syncretism with Christians, I've been shot down hard. Do you think it can happen? Can a Christian truly accept the parallels with paganism and other faiths and accept they are as valid a path...while still remaining true to their own tenets?

I was referring to Salvation being Cocaine. Your post had nothing to do with it. I hadn't even read it when I wrote that. I was still staring at salvation being cocaine.

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously, just, that post. Cocaine? Seriously?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, yes, they can accept that. I do. So, yeah. There are a crap ton of parallels. I remember bonding with my girlfriend over votive candles similarity to candle magic most fondly.

[Medusa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I was referring to Salvation being Cocaine. Your post had nothing to do with it. I hadn't even read it when I wrote that. I was still staring at salvation being cocaine.

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously, just, that post. Cocaine? Seriously?

Eh, you are going to make me get out of my bed all cozy and stuff, aren't you? Ok. So I'll explain. I'm a former Catholic. When I say that I mean I was raised Roman Catholic. But I was never a believer. Even though I had to go through it. Because as a Mexican in a Mexican family, eh, it's what you do. No questions. My father died when I was 11 and I stopped being a pretend Catholic. At 15 I became a LaVeyan Satanist.

Now my comment about salvation. What pushed me away from Catholicism was the idea of Salvation. Great! I can be saved! From what? Well you are human. You are born into original sin. You are paying the price of Adam and Eve. They sinned. Ergo you are their blood. It's blood sin. There you go. But you can kill my son/me and all will be forgiven. Your sins will be forgiven. You can get saved from the sin and be just like the rest.

I don't need to be saved. I was born this way (to quote Gaga quoting anyone else before her). The idea that I NEED salvation is a set up. It's the drug dealer pushing you the need. When all along I didn't need to be saved because there is nothing wrong with me. I will not spend my life following orders of how to get saved when the thing that needs me to be saved made it possible that I have to be saved.


I break free of that shit.

*and now back to mah bed.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I was referring to Salvation being Cocaine. Your post had nothing to do with it. I hadn't even read it when I wrote that. I was still staring at salvation being cocaine.

Don't look her in the eyes and you'll be fine. I'm interested in the underlying idea alluded to with that analogy. I don't necessarily agree, but it has the potential to spark off an interesting discussion about whether or not Salvation is a tangible goal or simply an illusion. If you don't want to ask her, I will. I don't think that it necessarily has to end in tears.

And Rowanwood has some interesting points too, especially regarding the ideas about total faith and what behaviours may be fed by an underlying feeling of being threatened by the faith of others.

Given that we're well off topic (twice) and the OP of this post is from 2011, should we ask a mod to split this off so we can get our teeth into some of these questions? I'm keen if you guys are.

- - - Updated - - -

She bet us to it. lol

[Rowanwood]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I'm all for it.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Eh, you are going to make me get out of my bed all cozy and stuff, aren't you? Ok. So I'll explain. I'm a former Catholic. When I say that I mean I was raised Roman Catholic. But I was never a believer. Even though I had to go through it. Because as a Mexican in a Mexican family, eh, it's what you do. No questions. My father died when I was 11 and I stopped being a pretend Catholic. At 15 I became a LaVeyan Satanist.

Now my comment about salvation. What pushed me away from Catholicism was the idea of Salvation. Great! I can be saved! From what? Well you are human. You are born into original sin. You are paying the price of Adam and Eve. They sinned. Ergo you are their blood. It's blood sin. There you go. But you can kill my son/me and all will be forgiven. Your sins will be forgiven. You can get saved from the sin and be just like the rest.

I don't need to be saved. I was born this way (to quote Gaga quoting anyone else before her). The idea that I NEED salvation is a set up. It's the drug dealer pushing you the need. When all along I didn't need to be saved because there is nothing wrong with me. I will not spend my life following orders of how to get saved when the thing that needs me to be saved made it possible that I have to be saved.


I break free of that shit.

*and now back to mah bed.

The only thing that I would change or add here would be that I don't believe that everyone has the same goals as us. Some people feel that they do in fact 'need' to be saved, because their end goal is to bask in the eternal presence of YHVH. I always thought that there was a very good reason that the analogy of Jesus being a shepherd and the congregation his flock is such a strong and popular one. Some people WANT to be the flock. So to them, Salvation is a very real and worthwhile concept.

Us... we're the wolves who feel that Salvation is a self perpetuating illusion. Because that's not our goal.

[Medusa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Didn't mean to be flippant and get a hassle started. But..if I am an atheist I have no belief in deity. I have no belief in heaven or hell in any deity belief structure. So why would I believe I need salvation? The very idea repulses me. I don't like feeling duped or coerced. I don't like feeling threatened or coddled. There are two ways to think of salvation: 1, yay, I'm saved! 2, Shit, I ain't saved. But from what?

You are born
you need to be saved.
Something is terribly wrong there.
Someone is lying to you.

Salvation is another word for power over you. Something holds salvation while you do anything you can to get it.

*i'd also add that I hold this one belief very strongly. It does not waver. I do not say so being 'a rebellious teen' etc trying to just sound tough. I have the very words of no salvation on my body. I hold it to be my one solid sincere truth. And it makes my life better for it.

[Juniper]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

What exactly are we supposed to split off? Truly, I think someone should just start a new topic with the specific questions/text quoted.

I momentarily had a 'WTF, why is this thread still alive?' moment. Unless one of the other mods feels up to it, I can't be arsed to sift through this heap.

[Medusa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Eh just let it ride. We all know where we are at this point!

[Malflick]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

Eh, you are going to make me get out of my bed all cozy and stuff, aren't you? Ok. So I'll explain. I'm a former Catholic. When I say that I mean I was raised Roman Catholic. But I was never a believer. Even though I had to go through it. Because as a Mexican in a Mexican family, eh, it's what you do. No questions. My father died when I was 11 and I stopped being a pretend Catholic. At 15 I became a LaVeyan Satanist.

Now my comment about salvation. What pushed me away from Catholicism was the idea of Salvation. Great! I can be saved! From what? Well you are human. You are born into original sin. You are paying the price of Adam and Eve. They sinned. Ergo you are their blood. It's blood sin. There you go. But you can kill my son/me and all will be forgiven. Your sins will be forgiven. You can get saved from the sin and be just like the rest.

I don't need to be saved. I was born this way (to quote Gaga quoting anyone else before her). The idea that I NEED salvation is a set up. It's the drug dealer pushing you the need. When all along I didn't need to be saved because there is nothing wrong with me. I will not spend my life following orders of how to get saved when the thing that needs me to be saved made it possible that I have to be saved.


I break free of that shit.

*and now back to mah bed.

I think our perspectives on this are so radically different I'm not sure responding would really be worth either of our time. While I could certainly go into detail about what I believe on this topic and where I am coming from, it wouldn't change much. I think we have a massively different idea of salvation, and I also think we went radically different Catholic churches growing up.

Salvation isn't a burden, or a guilt trip, its a gift. It doesn't mean you were worthless, it means you were always loved, and meant to be loved.

But like I said, we aren't going to agree on this :P

- - - Updated - - -

Don't look her in the eyes and you'll be fine. I'm interested in the underlying idea alluded to with that analogy. I don't necessarily agree, but it has the potential to spark off an interesting discussion about whether or not Salvation is a tangible goal or simply an illusion. If you don't want to ask her, I will. I don't think that it necessarily has to end in tears.

And Rowanwood has some interesting points too, especially regarding the ideas about total faith and what behaviours may be fed by an underlying feeling of being threatened by the faith of others.

Given that we're well off topic (twice) and the OP of this post is from 2011, should we ask a mod to split this off so we can get our teeth into some of these questions? I'm keen if you guys are.

- - - Updated - - -

She bet us to it. lol

I'm not particularly interested in talking more about Salvation, frankly it would be a pretty boring circular conversation.

More talk about religious synchronicity would be interesting for sure though.

[Medusa]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I was always loved.
But I was flawed, wasn't I?
That's why I NEED salvation.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Mixing Catholicism with Witchcraft?

I'm not particularly interested in talking more about Salvation, frankly it would be a pretty boring circular conversation.

More talk about religious synchronicity would be interesting for sure though.

Awwww okay, we'll call it quits on the Salvation part (I am still interested in your thoughts, though).

*goes off to start something about religious synchronicity*

- - - Updated - - -

... when she figures out how to quote Rowanwood into an entirely new thread...